Gem State Box Pleated

**McElmurry** · 2nd March 11, 07:13 AM

Can this tartan be box pleated to one of the red stripes? I had only looked at the swatch before but closer inspection of the bar shows three different red stripe patterns. I am interested in a 4-yard box pleated kilt to use as a blue jeans/dockers replacement, so I would prefer to have the darker colors exposed.

Colour Sequence: BRBRBGWTWGBRBRBGWTWGBRBR

Thread Count: B24 R4 B4 R4 B4 G20 W24 T6 W24 G20 B22 R4 B4 R4 B22 G20 W24 T6 W24 G20 B4 R4 B4 R4

**piperdbh** · 2nd March 11, 07:28 AM

Yes. Print a whole page of the tartan, and experiment with folding it into different pleats. If you can get a swatch of the fabric, that'll work even better.

**McElmurry** · 2nd March 11, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by piperdbh

Yes. Print a whole page of the tartan, and experiment with folding it into different pleats.

OK, I tried that and the visible portion is G20 B22 R4 B4 R4 B22 G20. Is there a way to determine the width of that portion of the set?

**AKScott** · 3rd March 11, 12:50 AM

Depends on the weight.

16oz Strome from LochCarron runs about 50 threads per inch. 16oz House of Edgar runs about 50 threads per inch. I don't have anything else here to measure. I would expect lighter weight cloth to have more (thinner) threads per inch.

**McElmurry** · 3rd March 11, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by AKScott

Depends on the weight.

16oz Strome from LochCarron runs about 50 threads per inch. 16oz House of Edgar runs about 50 threads per inch.

So 96 threads would be just under 2 inches for 16 oz.

**Paul Henry** · 3rd March 11, 07:01 AM

The size of the sett is very hard to calculate. Without actually seeing a sample from the actual weaver there are many variations, so while you can get a rough estimation, nothing will match an actual swatch.Remember a sample from different weavers of the same tartan won't neccessarily been the same either. in either colour or size.

**McElmurry** · 3rd March 11, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by paulhenry

The size of the sett is very hard to calculate. Without actually seeing a sample from the actual weaver there are many variations, so while you can get a rough estimation, nothing will match an actual swatch.Remember a sample from different weavers of the same tartan won't neccessarily been the same either. in either colour or size.

Ok, I understand that so I will talk in terms of thread count. There are three different red stripes. Including the green, the double red is 96 threads wide, the triple red is 72 threads wide, and the quad red is 120 threads wide. The white/brown stripes are 54 threads wide.

Two box pleats of the double red would be 192 threads. Hiding behind the two box pleats would be one triple red, one quad red, and four white/brown stripes for a total of 408 threads. 408 is more than two times 192 so the under-pleats would overlap a small amount. Is this a problem?

**MacMillans son** · 3rd March 11, 07:47 AM

The best solution, although it requires commitment and faith, may be to buy the tartan, send it to a trusted kiltmaker and have them pin up some pleating options that achieve your goal. Or, you could spend a lot on coffee and a calculator and still not get it right.

Xman has been known to enjoy some mathematical pre-purchase planning, a PM to him may help you out as well.

Good luck!

**Paul Henry** · 3rd March 11, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by MacMillan's son

The best solution, although it requires commitment and faith, may be to buy the tartan, send it to a trusted kiltmaker and have them pin up some pleating options that achieve your goal. Or, you could spend a lot on coffee and a calculator and still not get it right.

Xman has been known to enjoy some mathematical pre-purchase planning, a PM to him may help you out as well.

Good luck!

When a client choses a tartan I try and find out the sett size from the weaver that is making it,and I certainnly try to get a sample before committing my client or indeed me ( as the kiltmaker).Generally the client allows me to have an input into what is possible or impossible, and often we come to a mutal agreement.Even so once I get the tartan on my table to try a couple of different layouts and invite the client to see them, either in person or via photographs. That I am afraid is the only way to be sure that the pleating arrangement will work,and it is really worth having the fabric to try out the possibilities.
I, and probably most kiltmaker spend some time doing sums on the backs of envelopes working out how much fabric we really need, and how much it will actually cost, a real consideration with a custom weave.

Regarding the overlap in a box pleat, a small overlap isn't going to be the end of the world, but remember not all tartans work equally well to the sett or the stripe,and I'd hazard a guess that a very large sett on the pattern might actually prove very difficult to maintain the pattern

**xman** · 3rd March 11, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by MacMillan's son

Xman has been known to enjoy some mathematical pre-purchase planning, a PM to him may help you out as well.

Getting me in trouble now, Terry?

Okay, I can't find this tartan woven anywhere so it might be a special order in which case you can specify the sett size to achieve whatever effect you like. I would recommend sticking with what has been designated if you can for simplicity's sake. I calculate 300 threads in the count making it about 7.5" - 8" sett size depending on the weave. STR states that it is a modification of Black Watch too so all things being equal, I'd say this should box pleat well to either the centred double red line or the pairs of double red lines with somewhere in the neighbourhood of 2.5" wide pleats. PM me if you like, McElmurry. I can send some jpg's your way.

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