Modern weathered tartans

[figheadair]

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...rs-fade-62075/

figheadair's wonderfully informative posting on colours fading and replicating old tartans.

See also

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-patern-61986/

It's just a pity his images don't seem to be working at the moment.

Sorry guys but I'm away from home for a couple of weeks and don't seem to be able to correct them via this connection

[figheadair]

Or, are we looking at a cunning plan to offer another colour scheme to sell more tartan?I really don't mind that, it is business after all, but I do like to know these things before parting with hard earned cash.

In short Jock, yes. They might dress the story up with all sorts of claims but the fact is that they've never done any research on which to base these spurious claims.

Haven't I seen the line that the weathered tartans are what the regular tartan would look like if it had been buried in a peat bog for some period of time?

No, that's the 'story' replating to Reporduction colours - see the Colours link on my research page.

Rocky,

Are you sure it was not Wilsons of Bannockburn? I'm not aware of another tartan weaver named Wilsons from 150 years ago. Peter?

Agreed Matt. I've never heard of another Wilsons firm. Some lost/obscured in translation me thinks.

[RockyR]

Rocky,

Are you sure it was not Wilsons of Bannockburn? I'm not aware of another tartan weaver named Wilsons from 150 years ago. Peter?

White Hill & Wilson was the name of the company (from Paisley, Scotland) that HOE bought about 10 years ago. They were a tartan company that did comission weaving (meaning they had a mill weave their cloth for them, then they stocked it and re-sold it). As per Bill Wheelan at HOE (whom I concur with having seen them), the cloth books are roughly 150 years old. They were found up in the attic of the building along with some beautiful old paisley patterns that HOE re-did and made into throws.

Sorry I was a bit vague in my first post, I was going off of memory of a passing conversation. I just called Bill and the above statement was directly from his lips to my keyboard.

[RockyR]

In short Jock, yes. They might dress the story up with all sorts of claims but the fact is that they've never done any research on which to base these spurious claims.

You don't think that DC Dalgliesh's claims that they carefully researched the colors used and the loan of the piece of MacDonald tartan from 200+ years ago are valid as research? I'm not saying that they had a team of scientists working on which shade of red and how it was dyed, but they did do research to reproduce the colors.

Taken from DC Dalgliesh's website:

...It began in the autumn of 1946 when a Peat gatherer seeking fuel on Culloden Moor, near Inverness, dug out an old piece of cloth, which after the most searching examination proved to be of MacDonald Tartan. The colour and sett were noted to be somewhat different to that in vogue but this was hardly surprising when it was decided that the piece of cloth was certainly 200 years old....

...Here indeed was the key to much lost and sketchy knowledge and to D.C.Dalgliesh, who obtained this piece of cloth on loan, among conditions laid down were two namely (1) that it be insured for £2,000, and (2) that it be lodge nightly, locked away in a safe.

Patient and intensive research into colours, sett and weave followed, and as a result D.C.Dalgliesh Ltd., have produced a range of “Reproduction Tartans” which are authentic in colour and design to those worn in 1745 and before.

Woven in pure 100% new wool, and using traditional weaving methods, the colourings of these Tartans offer a soft muted effect entirely reminiscent of the days when vegetable sources such as lichen, moss and alder bark provided the dyer with his raw materials.

Keep in mind, I DO understand that it's not 100% historically accurate and that there IS an element of 'commercialism' here. They aren't necessarily 100% historically accurate b/c it's their job to maintain a business, not please historians every request. I would say that if they are 80% accurate, they've done a good job approximating a 'weathered historical' look which is still attractive and commercially viable.

In the same vein, complaints could be made of painters who paint tartan and forget the smallest detail of a certain stripe or are a shade of red off. No one has attacked MacIan's historical accuracy.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Thanks for the clarification, Rocky!

[davidlpope]

Pictures?

Here's the thread about it, featuring a photo:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-colors-59517/

[figheadair]

You don't think that DC Dalgliesh's claims that they carefully researched the colors used and the loan of the piece of MacDonald tartan from 200+ years ago are valid as research? I'm not saying that they had a team of scientists working on which shade of red and how it was dyed, but they did do research to reproduce the colors.

This has been discussed elsewhere on the forum but to reiterate: the MacDonald tartan is not a Culloden era sett; no photos exist of the 'claimed' original piece, nor were any details of the weave, threadcount etc noted, and D. C. Dalgliesh are unable to identify the owner, then or now, in order that piece could be examined. So no, that's not any form of valid academic research in my book.

[RockyR]

I was not aware that anyone had questioned the validity of the swatch's existence and they had not been able to reproduce it either in person or in picture. While I don't make any judgement on whether or not it does exist (or it's age, etc as I am not an expert in old tartans such as yourself and matt), I wasn't talking about acedemic research.

I was stating that GIVEN THE ASSUMTION... which may very well be incorrect... that Dalgliesh did inspect a piece of 200 year old cloth, that they had done some research and produced a line of tartans which, to the casual onbserver (which is 80%+ of kilt wearers), they had done a good job simulating an 'old' look to their tartans.

Matt Newsome posted a picture of a Kennedy MODERN tartan kilt that is roughly 80 - 100 years old that has faded a lot. When put side by side with the weathered, ancient and modern Kennedy tartans, it looks most like the Kennedy Weathered. I would say that the name fits and that the mills have done a good job giving people a third option to the standard 'modern' and 'ancient'.

[Woodsheal]

Whether a gimmick or not, many of the "weathered" tartans are downright gorgeous, and as Rocky says, an attractive option for many folks. I have a Black Watch Weathered kilt on order from John at Keltoi, and am really looking forward to it...!

[MacBean]

Take a look at this post by Matthew Newsome. The kilt shown is "modern" i.e. chemical dyes:
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...tml#post919838

Clearly, not all dyes fade equally. In fact those in the figure seem fine except for the green. They need to choose a different dye that won't fade so fast.