Post Your Granted, Assumed or Desired Arms

[Chas]

Hi John,

There are certain conventions or rules as to how a shield is drawn up, but they are more common sense than anything else. It is, after all, about recognition - either originally on the battlefield or more recently identifying possessions.

There are in general two routes, official and unofficial. The official route (in England, Wales and N. Ireland) is through the College of Arms in London or Lord Lyon in Scotland. The unofficial route is more or less as you have described and is known as self assumption.

The official route will cost under £5,000 from the College or £3,500 from Lord Lyon. The unofficial route costs only what you wish to pay for printing or embroidering.

In England, Wales and N. Ireland there is little or no protection. That is to say that you can pay £5,000 and another man can decide to use your arms as his own. It would be a civil suit through the courts to make him stop.

In Scotland the law is on the side of the armiger and Lord Lyon can sit in his court and make a decision. His word on the matter is law and he has, in theory, unlimited powers. It cost Mohamed Al Fayed (of Harrods fame) almost £1 million, because he ignored Lord Lyon.

So yes, you can hack something up on the back of a fag packet and use it as your own and provided it is suitably different from anything that has gone before and doesn't brake any artistic rules, no one will say anything about it.

Regards

Chas

[English Bloke]

Cheers Chas, thank you.

[WVHighlander]

Chas,

Thank you for the draw up. I think it looks great. I did have a question on the raven...is it possible (with in the etiquette and tradition of heraldry) to have the raven displayed with its wings outstretched? (Like you would normally see a falcon or eagle.)

John

[Harold Cannon]

Here are a few of the things I have come up with. Our very own SLACKERDRUMMER helped me tweek my origional idea and make something really awesome. I think so anyway!









I would really appreciate it if someone would blazon my arms for me as I am not very good at the terminology.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Chas,

Thank you for the draw up. I think it looks great. I did have a question on the raven...is it possible (with in the etiquette and tradition of heraldry) to have the raven displayed with its wings outstretched? (Like you would normally see a falcon or eagle.)

John

The short answer is "yes", a raven may be blazoned as "displayed" (that is, with it's wings outstretched) in the same manner as any other bird.

[Cygnus]

Those are good looking arms, Harold!

I'm not entirely sure how the blazon for a bordure like that would be phrased, as I've never seen one divided in chief like that, but I'll take a stab at it!

Or a bear rampant Sable armed and langued Gules bearing in its dexter paw a highland broadsword Argent tasseled of the Third, on a chief Gules three Maltese crosses Argent; all within a bordure Counter-changed.

I'm sure there's a more streamlined way to say it (especially with all the Gules being tossed about), but I can't think of how to do it!

I'm also curious to know if the bordure is being used for cadency; if so, I think a bordure chequey or counter-compony may be more appropriate.

[Chas]

Chas,

Thank you for the draw up. I think it looks great. I did have a question on the raven...is it possible (with in the etiquette and tradition of heraldry) to have the raven displayed with its wings outstretched? (Like you would normally see a falcon or eagle.)

John

Hi John,

The quick answer is yes. For example, you could have a raven riding a unicycle, if for some reason it was important to you (I don't know, a play on words or a job reference or some such).

But, we come back to a quotation oft heard here "Just because you can, does not mean you should"

The whole idea of heraldry was originally recognition and to that end certain elements are drawn in a certain way so that they will be instantly recognised. From a distance of 200 yards could an archer tell whether your shield bore an eagle displayed or a raven displayed - probably not, given the state of drawing skills of 400 years ago. Does it matter? To the man being shot it does - especially if he is the wrong man.

That is why we tend to have default positions. A really good example of this is the elongated, skinny, anorexic lions of England.



It doesn't matter whether they are anatomically correct or not. What matters is that they are recognisable.

The same is true of your raven. The default position is with the wings closed or 'close' in heraldic terms. The raven or corbie is quite traditional in Scottish heraldry, but only in that exact stance. So much so that the programme I used to depict your arms only allows for the one stance. I can change the size and the colour of feathers, beak and talons, but not the stance.

So, yes it can be done, but I am unable to do it.

Regards

Chas

[Harold Cannon]

Thanks Cygnus. Joseph MacMillan posted this on another forum for the blazon.

Or a bear rampant Sable brandishing a basket-hilted sword proper on a chief Gules three Maltese crosses Argent all within a bordure counterchanged.

Crest: [On a wreath of the colors] Upon a grassy mound a bear statant erect supporting a Lochaber axe with his forepaws, his right hind foot resting upon a boulder all proper.

[Cygnus]

Thanks Cygnus. Joseph MacMillan posted this on another forum for the blazon.

Or a bear rampant Sable brandishing a basket-hilted sword proper on a chief Gules three Maltese crosses Argent all within a bordure counterchanged.

Crest: [On a wreath of the colors] Upon a grassy mound a bear statant erect supporting a Lochaber axe with his forepaws, his right hind foot resting upon a boulder all proper.

Very good! I suppose making the sword proper is an easy fix for the "clunkiness" of my blazon, since I've never seen one that didn't have the red tassel and lining (if it was lined at all). If the tongue and claw colour are important to you, I'd be sure to include "armed and langued Gules" with the description of the bear - otherwise it sounds just right to me!

So it would be:

Or a bear rampant Sable armed and langued Gules brandishing a basket-hilted sword proper, on a chief of the Third three Maltese crosses Argent, all within a bordure counterchanged.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I would really appreciate it if someone would blazon my arms for me as I am not very good at the terminology.

As for a blazon, based on what is seen, I think I'd consider:

ARMS: Or within a bordure gules a lion rampant defamed* sable brandishing with its dexter paw a broadsword proper overall on a chief gules within a demi-bordure or three Maltese crosses argent.

(*It may be that you have intended this charge to be a bear rampant, but from the way it is drawn it can only be interpreted as a tail-less lion. If it is your intent to display a lion, then it would benefit from the addition of a tail; if it is a bear, then it needs to be drawn as such, ie: muzzled.)

CREST: (on a wreath of the colours or and gules) upon a grassy mound a bear* statant erect supporting a lochaber axe with his forepaws his dexter hind foot resting upon a rock all proper.

(*Bears, to distinguish them from other animals, are properly depicted as muzzled unless blazoned to the contrary.)

You will note that Joe and I have taken a different approach to the blazon of the bordure. I have chosen to treat both bordures as ordinaries (one red, the other gold) to avoid the possibility of confusing Harold's livery colours with those of the chief of his clan. Were no such confusion to arise, then I would follow Joe's blazon, but would be specific as to the counter-change:

all within a bordure counter-changed in chief

to avoid giving the impression that the bordure was being used as a mark of cadency.