A Question for the Experts: What are your favorite old setts?

**figheadair** · 14th December 11, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by creagdhubh

Thanks Peter!

I have seen this particular sample (in person I might add) of the 'Crubin Plaid' before, however, this is not what I am referring to. The version that is discussed most amongst Macphersons and Clan Macpherson historians, is a bit of hard tartan apparently woven sometime during the 18th-century (maybe earlier), and discovered in the 18th-century. The sample shown above is more than likely a variant of what was originally discovered in Badenoch. Naturally, since the tartan 'craze' was on, Wilson's took it from there, and of course much later, DC Stewart and James Scarlett added their assumptions of the cloth.

Bottom line, to us Macphersons, we definitively believe that an early 18th-century (or maybe earlier) piece of tartan cloth, now cited as the 'Macpherson Crubin plaid,' indeed existed, BUT, naturally, we have no concrete evidence of such a cloth - ONLY a written and spoken account passed down within the Clan Macpherson; specifically through the cadet branch of Slioch'd Gillosa, also referred to as the Macphersons of Invereshie.

Cheers,

And there in lies the problem for me as a tartan historian. Unfortunately heresey without proof is little more than myth. The piece I posted is (incorrectly) claimed to be the Crubin plaid. My mistake earlier, the image you posted is of the Crubin plaid said to have been examined by DCS in 1947. Unfortunately he doesn't say where it was but I have seen other pieces that he examined and recorded completely incorrectly so I remain very sceptical about the supposed original piece.

**creagdhubh** · 14th December 11, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by figheadair

And there in lies the problem for me as a tartan historian. Unfortunately heresey without proof is little more than myth. The piece I posted is (incorrectly) claimed to be the Crubin plaid. My mistake earlier, the image you posted is of the Crubin plaid said to have been examined by DCS in 1947. Unfortunately he doesn't say where it was but I have seen other pieces that he examined and recorded completely incorrectly so I remain very sceptical about the supposed original piece.

I agree. It can prove difficult in distinguishing fact from myth, especially when so many people (the Macphersons) are in agreement in regards to the history of the Macpherson Crubin plaid. Unless the original specimen turns up, and is properly examined by the appropriate experts and historians, such as yourself, I'm afraid the original, 18th-century (perhaps pre-18th-century) Macpherson Crubin plaid, all but remains a myth.

As always, thanks for your expertise, Peter!

Warmest regards,

**KD Burke** · 15th December 11, 05:57 AM

Firstly, Gentlemen, thanks for the input! This is exactly the sort of thing I'm interested in!

Originally Posted by figheadair

I think you need to qualify old, forgotten setts which haven't been woven in living memory.

I suppose this was an unfortunate choce of words. I intended to be inclusive, rather than exclusive, here. My intention is simply to open the floor to discussion of old tartans that don't get the recognition they deserve.

Peter, your work on the MacDonald of Kingsburgh is wonderful. I have been considering the modern version of this tartan for my next kilt purchase, but your article has me reconsidering. I may have to consider another custom weave!

**BCAC** · 15th December 11, 06:03 AM

I thought perhaps Ron (riverkilt) might chime in here. He has an excellent kilt, sewn up by Kathy Lare, in this Tartan. He even uses his picture in this kilt as his avatar, IIRC.

**creagdhubh** · 15th December 11, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by BCAC

In the year of our lord thirteen fourteen, patriots of Scotland, starving and outnumbered, charged the fields of Bannockburn. They fought like warriors. They fought like Scotsmen. And won their freedom. British by birth, Scottish by the grace of God

"They fought like warrior poets."

**BCAC** · 15th December 11, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by creagdhubh

"They fought like warrior poets."

OK. If you think that it's not right, I'll change my signature. Please inform if the new one is correct

**creagdhubh** · 15th December 11, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by BCAC

OK. If you think that it's not right, I'll change my signature. Please inform if the new one is correct

I wasn't saying that you had to change your signature, I was simply pointing out that you were missing a word ("poets") from the line quoted at the end of Braveheart. That's all mate.

Cheers!