WWI Pleating

[DMac]

Thank you for the information. The WWI reenacting unit that I joined uses Black Watch an from the original pictures we could tell that there kilts were pleated to the stripe but couldn't tell what type of pleats they were.
This brings up the next question 16oz or 18oz wool? Again these are to tell from the images and searches on the web don't provide much detail.

[Woodsheal]

Thank you for the information. The WWI reenacting unit that I joined uses Black Watch an from the original pictures we could tell that there kilts were pleated to the stripe but couldn't tell what type of pleats they were.
This brings up the next question 16oz or 18oz wool? Again these are to tell from the images and searches on the web don't provide much detail.

During the WWI timeframe, I believe they were using 22oz tartan for military kilts.
Repros available here:


http://onlinemilitaria.net/shopexd.asp?id=1671&bc=no

[figheadair]

Bob Martin's book on the History of the Kilt has the answers and pictures etc.

The BW used to wear a Barrel (Reverse box) Pleat but I think that that came in slightly later.

At whatever date I thought all BW kilts were pleated to stripe?? Again, Bob's the man to ask.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Bob Martin's book on the History of the Kilt has the answers and pictures etc.

The BW used to wear a Barrel (Reverse box) Pleat but I think that that came in slightly later.

At whatever date I thought all BW kilts were pleated to stripe?? Again, Bob's the man to ask.

All Black Watch kilts were pleated to the stripe. The Black Watch regiment pleated their kilts to show more blue (every pleat centered on a pair of black lines), while the A&S pleated their kilts to show more green (every pleat centered on the single black line).

Also, prior to the 1980s (I want to say 1984), the tartan for the A&S was woven with a lighter shade of green, which was another way of distinguishing the two regiments. But after that date, the two made their kilts from the same color tartan, so the only way to distinguish was from the pleating.

[Sir William]

Also, prior to the 1980s (I want to say 1984), the tartan for the A&S was woven with a lighter shade of green, which was another way of distinguishing the two regiments. But after that date, the two made their kilts from the same color tartan, so the only way to distinguish was from the pleating.

I've also read (somewhere) that BW officer's kilts were a slightly lighter shade than the other ranks. Is this true or just another kilt myth?

[DMac]

Ok, so when then did BW change from being pleated from the blue section to the green section with single blue stripe? I own a military BW kilt from around the 30-40's, and it pleated to the green stripe.

[MacSpadger]

During the WWI timeframe, I believe they were using 22oz tartan for military kilts.

Yes, I used to have one, a 1917 Seaforth's kilt, very heavy indeed, and extra thick due to the box pleating. The kilt itself is still going strong in a local pipeband, so it was made to last.

I think the switch to 18oz kilts was well after WW2, but at some much later point 18oz material was used in the Scottish regiments up until the formation of the Royal regiment, which seems to use 16oz.
Blame the bean counters.

[figheadair]

I've emailed Bob for his input

[figheadair]

Some feedback from Bob Martin. A man that knows his kilts!

Black Watch - knife pleated
A&S - box pleated
Gordons - knife pleated
Seaforths - box pleated
Camerons - box pleated

42nd BW barrel pleat (also termed PIPED, CANE)
91st &93rd A&SH (narrow) box pleat
92nd GORDON HLDRS knife pleat (also called FLAT, NATURAL)
79th QUEENS OWN CAMERON HLDRS same as A&SH
78th SEAFORTH HLDRS same as A&SH

Thank you for the information. The WWI reenacting unit that I joined uses Black Watch an from the original pictures we could tell that there kilts were pleated to the stripe but couldn't tell what type of pleats they were. This brings up the next question 16oz or 18oz wool? Again these are to tell from the images and searches on the web don't provide much detail.

WW1 pltg (ALL regimental kilts, from the beginning, were box pltd.) the BW started to barrel pleat ca. Crimean War, each pleat to the B, alternating 1 w/ tram lines, the next, no tram lines, and so-on. I did run across a photo of some BW in the Hebrides w/knife pltd kilts. Perhaps locally built? The GORDONs were the first to go from the box plt to the knife plt ca. Crimean War. Y line on G.

During the WWI timeframe, I believe they were using 22oz tartan for military kilts.

Tthe heavy "horse-blanket" cloth was used thru WW2. When Robert Noble of Peebles was making all the cloth, post 1984, the cloth was 17/18 oz of woolen material, NOT worsted.

The BW used to wear a Barrel (Reverse box) Pleat but I think that that came in slightly later.

NO! term "reverse" ok, but not BOX, should be KNIFE.

I've also read (somewhere) that BW officer's kilts were a slightly lighter shade than the other ranks. Is this true or just another kilt myth?

All Black Watch kilts were pleated to the stripe. The Black Watch regiment pleated their kilts to show more blue (every pleat centered on a pair of black lines), while the A&S pleated their kilts to show more green (every pleat centered on the single black line).

Also, prior to the 1980s (I want to say 1984), the tartan for the A&S was woven with a lighter shade of green, which was another way of distinguishing the two regiments. But after that date, the two made their kilts from the same color tartan, so the only way to distinguish was from the pleating.

Yes, all BW kilts pltd to blue, BUT plts alternate between K trams on one to no trams on the next and so-on. When the plts fall from the sewn part, the tram and no-tram situation is reversed.. neat, hiuh?

Yes, the lighter shade of G was used, but only for the officers kilts. basically, the difference of the o.r.'s kilts was size of setts. from the rear, the difference was seen mainly by the pltg. yes, eventually, both regiments used the identical cloth. the BW went from the barrel kilt to knife pltd kilt ca. 1952-54.

Ok, so when then did BW change from being pleated from the blue section to the green section with single blue stripe? I own a military BW kilt from around the 30-40's, and it pleated to the green stripe.

BW never changed from B to G. The G plts must be A&SH. Check the rear for the form of pltg. See what waist band your kilt has.

Yes, I used to have one, a 1917 Seaforth's kilt, very heavy indeed, and extra thick due to the box pleating. The kilt itself is still going strong in a local pipeband, so it was made to last.

I think the switch to 18oz kilts was well after WW2, but at some much later point 18oz material was used in the Scottish regiments up until the formation of the Royal regiment, which seems to use 16oz.
Blame the bean counters.

Yes, on this great old kilt. I do not know exactly when Noble started to make BW cloth. I imagine that when he got the contract from the MOD, ca, 1984 to make the cloth for all the regts, that he would just continue the same cloth. Likewise, i can only "assume" the ROYALs (Royal Regiment of Scotland) are using the same. In ca, 1984-90, all but the ARGYLs went to the knife plt. I do not know what p-ltg the Royals use, but i'd
guess the knife plt, it is much easier to build.