Irish Kilts: solid vs. tartan

[CMcG]

All the recent, pre-St. Pat's threads have got me thinking about Irish kilts...

The original suggestion of the early Irish nationalists and Gaelic revivalists was for a solid colour kilt, as this would distinguish it from the Scottish tartan kilt that it was based on. The most likely choices are saffron to represent the ancient leine, St. Pat's blue, or shamrock green. Nowadays there are many Irish tartans available, most of which are fairly recent creations (e.g. Irish county tartans, variations on Irish national tartans) but some of which are also rather old (like the Ulster tartan). Some Irish families have their own tartans, while others may be considered (rightly or wrongly) as septs of Scottish clans.

Here is my question: do you prefer Irish kilts to be solid or tartan? Why? Pros and cons of either option?

Saying yes to BOTH solid colour and tartan Irish kilts could also be a possible answer, but I'd still like to know people's thoughts about the two options. If they are both equally good, why?

[Nick the DSM]

I've always like the solid green, blue, saffron kilts, the colours just look great to my eye. Even tweed versions would be interesting.

Some of the Irish tartans just don't appeal to me, couldn't care less whether they were "right or wrong", I don't think I would wear them. I do like the Ulster tartan though and a couple others.


Whether should they be tartan or not is up to the wearer I guess. The public will see it as a kilt both ways hopefully.

To most of the people tartan is a Scottish thing, while solid might be something else. Maybe if they see green or saffron kilts they will think it's Irish, but tartan will usually say "Scottish" to other people.

Just an observation.

[Bugbear]

I have an off kilter answer, and I promise I won't fly off the handle this time, CMcG.

I would feel that a solid colored or non-tartan kilt, assuming those colors recognizably symbolize Ireland, with an unusual pleating arrangement, or structural difference from the traditional Scottish kilt would be the most comfortable to me. And not to claim the kilt is what makes the outfit Irish.
In other words, the kilt would not look quite like a traditional Scottish kilt, and would be of one or more of the Irish related colors. I am not Irish, but one branch of my family does go back to Ireland, so not really sure what an Irish person might feel about it.
I don't know how to deal with tartan.

Hope that makes sense.

[Mickey]

My family history is rather spotted. I could be Irish, I could be Scottish, even a possibility that I could be English/Wales/any other Celtic nation (on my dad's side. On my mother's, I am strictly Norwegian). At this point, it is undetermined, though the consensus is that I'm Irish but we have found our "adopted" family name living in both Ireland and Scotland.

That said, I know that saffron is generally and historically accepted as the Irish kilt, and that all of the other ones are basically a marketing strategy.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the solid kilt. I love the look of the saffron, but I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't look good in it. That may be my hangup with modern kilts (doesn't matter who makes them, I am trying hard to not call them all Utilikilts). I just don't care for the solid color kilt and will be surprised if I ever own one.

[CMcG]

...

Just an observation.

Not just observations, but rather good observations!

While many non kilt-wearers aren't particularly educated about these sorts of nuances, especially outside the British Isles, I think you're right that a tartan kilt is more likely to be perceived as Scottish and a solid colour as Irish. This alone is a good reason for Irish kilt wearers to go solid and I've also been intrigued by the idea of tweed kilts recently.

That being said, I really like tartan. Some of the tartans that are mostly green with saffron and white stripes (symbolizing the flag of the Republic of Ireland) still do look quite Irish. Some of the Irish county tartans really don't do it for me either, while others are better: the designs are a bit hit or miss, eh?

The Ulster tartan is also really nice, has an older pedigree, and could be particularly symbolic for Scots-Irish folks or those who are taken by the idea of even more ancient associations between Ulster, the Highlands, and the Western Islands.

[Riverkilt]

Which is more beautiful - the orchid or the rose?

I don't have to choose one, enjoy them both and they are both beautiful in their own way.

[CMcG]

I have an off kilter answer, and I promise I won't fly off the handle this time, CMcG.

I would feel that a solid colored or non-tartan kilt, assuming those colors recognizably symbolize Ireland, with an unusual pleating arrangement, or structural difference from the traditional Scottish kilt would be the most comfortable to me. And not to claim the kilt is what makes the outfit Irish.
In other words, the kilt would not look quite like a traditional Scottish kilt, and would be of one or more of the Irish related colors. I am not Irish, but one branch of my family does go back to Ireland, so not really sure what an Irish person might feel about it.
I don't know how to deal with tartan.

Hope that makes sense.

That does make really good sense! I hadn't really considered design differences but that does stand as a way of further differentiating Irish and Scottish kilts. I think I've seen some pictures of Irish kilts from the early 20th century that were pleated all the way around, but I didn't really like the look. Maybe some sort of variation in either the apron shape, the pleating arrangement, or both. A traditional Scottish tank is knife pleated, so perhaps Irish kilts should use a more historical style like box pleats or Kingussie.

[Nick the DSM]

Not just observations, but rather good observations!

While many non kilt-wearers aren't particularly educated about these sorts of nuances, especially outside the British Isles, I think you're right that a tartan kilt is more likely to be perceived as Scottish and a solid colour as Irish. This alone is a good reason for Irish kilt wearers to go solid and I've also been intrigued by the idea of tweed kilts recently.

That being said, I really like tartan. Some of the tartans that are mostly green with saffron and white stripes (symbolizing the flag of the Republic of Ireland) still do look quite Irish. Some of the Irish county tartans really don't do it for me either, while others are better: the designs are a bit hit or miss, eh?


The Ulster tartan is also really nice, has an older pedigree, and could be particularly symbolic for Scots-Irish folks or those who are taken by the idea of even more ancient associations between Ulster, the Highlands, and the Western Islands.

I agree. It is hit or miss for the tartans.

I'm not going to get into the topic that was in the other thread, but bear with me. I feel that the solid colors symbolize the Irish people more so than tartan kilts.

If the Ulster tartan was more known, such as Black Watch, then I feel tartan could be seen as Irish. I think Irish National is well known, but I don't think by many. Probably just a green tartan to most. I can't think of any other Irish tartans that would help with that part. The family and county tartans aren't going to popular. Unless a Duke or someone wears it, then that tartan and maybe even the other tartans will go bonanza. Sorta like the King George visits Scotland event. Ya dig?

[Bugbear]

That does make really good sense! I hadn't really considered design differences but that does stand as a way of further differentiating Irish and Scottish kilts. I think I've seen some pictures of Irish kilts from the early 20th century that were pleated all the way around, but I didn't really like the look. Maybe some sort of variation in either the apron shape, the pleating arrangement, or both. A traditional Scottish tank is knife pleated, so perhaps Irish kilts should use a more historical style like box pleats or Kingussie.

Yes.

Or perhaps a saffron kilt with solid green and blue pleats also included.

I have wanted to start a thread about multiple solid color pleats, but I don't know how to ask it, much less explain it.

[MacGumerait]

Which is more beautiful - the orchid or the rose?

I don't have to choose one, enjoy them both and they are both beautiful in their own way.

Well said , my thoughts as well , Riverkilt .

Irish kilts in solid versus tartan are in the eye of the beholder . I actually like both . I understand that some of the Irish tartans may not appeal to some . I've had some that didn't care for my own tartan , too simple , too plain ( avatar , it's not Irish , just sayin' ) once again eye of the beholder .

Whether Irish tartans are historically correct or as mentioned earlier to be something related to marketing , is a whole different thread for a different day.

Also , as mentioned in previous posts , I think the average person ( the general public ) percieve a tartan kilt , no matter the tartan , as something Scottish and a solid color kilt as something Irish . Maybe I shouldn't say the "general public " , but those who've had a wee bit of exposure to kilts which is most people .

I can remember seeing photos of the 1st Battalion Irish Guards back in the 1970's ... solid color kilts , Irish pipe bands in parades .... solid color kilts , Irish pipe bands in the Endingurgh Military Tatoo .... solid color kilts .

I think this is where the general public gets the idea that solid color kilts are an Irish thing and tartan kilts are Scottish .

Some people think we are one in the same ! ( we kinda are first cousins )

Mike Myers on his SNL skits " All things Scottish " often explianed the difference !