Irish Kilts: solid vs. tartan

[CMcG]

... Unless a Duke or someone wears it, then that tartan and maybe even the other tartans will go bonanza. Sorta like the King George visits Scotland event. Ya dig?

How about Bono (of U2 fame) in a kilt?

Yes.

Or perhaps a saffron kilt with solid green and blue pleats also included.

I have wanted to start a thread about multiple solid color pleats, but I don't know how to ask it, much less explain it.

Celtic Warrior Kilts specializes in modern-style, solid colour kilts with contrasting pleat inserts (LINK). How about a saffron utility kilt with alternating green and blue pleats?

[MacGumerait]

Well said , my thoughts as well , Riverkilt .

Irish kilts in solid versus tartan are in the eye of the beholder . I actually like both . I understand that some of the Irish tartans may not appeal to some . I've had some that didn't care for my own tartan , too simple , too plain ( avatar , it's not Irish , just sayin' ) once again eye of the beholder .

Whether Irish tartans are historically correct or as mentioned earlier to be something related to marketing , is a whole different thread for a different day.

Also , as mentioned in previous posts , I think the average person ( the general public ) percieve a tartan kilt , no matter the tartan , as something Scottish and a solid color kilt as something Irish . Maybe I shouldn't say the "general public " , but those who've had a wee bit of exposure to kilts which is most people .

I can remember seeing photos of the 1st Battalion Irish Guards back in the 1970's ... solid color kilts , Irish pipe bands in parades .... solid color kilts , Irish pipe bands in the Endingurgh Military Tatoo .... solid color kilts .

I think this is where the general public gets the idea that solid color kilts are an Irish thing and tartan kilts are Scottish .

Some people think we are one in the same ! ( we kinda are first cousins )

Mike Myers on his SNL skits " All things Scottish " often explianed the difference !

Sorry type o in the above , Edinburgh Military Tattoo , trying to type too fast !

[Bugbear]

That's probably a bit like what I'm thinking, CMcG.
It's the colors making it Irish, not the kilt; the kilt is just comfortable and nice to wear as a garment. As I said, though, I'm not Irish, and I don't know if those colors really say Irish to an Irish person.
I'm kind of having to culturally translate it to think about it, but this line of thinking could help me in the direction my own kilt wearing should take.

[Jock Scot]

Ok feet on the ground time.

In 70 something years I have never seen a saffron or solid green kilt worn in the Highlands. They may have been , but I have never seen one. In the rest of Scotland I have seen the very occasional visiting pipe band wearing them. I can't honestly say that I have seen an Irish tartan either, but in truth I don't know them, so they might have slipped through my radar. If I saw a saffron or green solid kilt being worn(out of a band context) and why not, I would instantly think, rightly or wrongly, "American tourist", it would never cross my mind that an Irish person would be wearing the kilt.

[CMcG]

Ok feet on the ground time.

In 70 something years I have never seen a saffron or solid green kilt worn in the Highlands. They may have been , but I have never seen one. In the rest of Scotland I have seen the very occasional visiting pipe band wearing them. I can't honestly say that I have seen an Irish tartan either, but in truth I don't know them, so they might have slipped through my radar. If I saw a saffron or green solid kilt being worn(out of a band context) and why not, I would instantly think, rightly or wrongly, "American tourist", it would never cross my mind that an Irish person would be wearing the kilt.

Thank you Jock. After that voluminous other thread, I was loathe to over qualify my question... I guess I should have asked about the concept of Irish kilts originally proposed by early Irish nationalists in Ireland that are now primarily worn by members of the Irish diaspora abroad to symbolize -- albeit confusingly, ambiguously, or even offensively to those in the old country -- their Irish heritage. But that was just such a mouthful that I hoped it could remain implicit

You definitely give a good example of how Irish tartans don't really symbolize very clearly: people tend, quite rightly, to see tartan kilts as Scottish.

If you don't mind, I have a question about the band context. When a piper wears a solid green or saffron kilt in Scotland, what kind of assumptions might be made about their heritage and/or affiliation?

[Zardoz]

Well, I have kilts in both Saffron and the Ireland's National tartan, and enjoy them both. For what it's worth I wear the 'IN' pretty regularly, and the Saffron mostly to events particular to the Irish community. So I guess one could say I think of the Saffron as 'more Irish' than the Irish tartans in general.

To me though, how I feel personally about the tartans, or lack thereof, that I choose to wear at given times is all that's important, I don't really worry about how they might be percieved by the public.

[Jock Scot]

Thank you Jock. After that voluminous other thread, I was loathe to over qualify my question... I guess I should have asked about the concept of Irish kilts originally proposed by early Irish nationalists in Ireland that are now primarily worn by members of the Irish diaspora abroad to symbolize -- albeit confusingly, ambiguously, or even offensively to those in the old country -- their Irish heritage. But that was just such a mouthful that I hoped it could remain implicit

You definitely give a good example of how Irish tartans don't really symbolize very clearly: people tend, quite rightly, to see tartan kilts as Scottish.

If you don't mind, I have a question about the band context. When a piper wears a solid green or saffron kilt in Scotland, what kind of assumptions might be made about their heritage and/or affiliation?

Two words would cover it. "Irish Guards".

[Paul Henry]

[QUOTE=CMcG;1075847...snip

While many non kilt-wearers aren't particularly educated about these sorts of nuances, especially outside the British Isles, I think you're right that a tartan kilt is more likely to be perceived as Scottish and a solid colour as Irish. This alone is a good reason for Irish kilt wearers to go solid and I've also been intrigued by the idea of tweed kilts recently.
...snip.[/QUOTE]

...snip
If I saw a saffron or green solid kilt being worn(out of a band context) and why not, I would instantly think, rightly or wrongly, "American tourist", it would never cross my mind that an Irish person would be wearing the kilt.

While I wouldn't go as far as Jock, ( although I might have similar ideas !) I think that British people are not that educated about kilt matters,and would only see the kilt as Scottish, and while there might be an internal question (about the Irish wearing a kilt ) , whether tartan or plain it's likely to be seen as Scottish.

[CMcG]

Two words would cover it. "Irish Guards".

Their pipers' uniform is really striking, eh?

While I wouldn't go as far as Jock, ( although I might have similar ideas !) I think that British people are not that educated about kilt matters,and would only see the kilt as Scottish, and while there might be an internal question (about the Irish wearing a kilt ) , whether tartan or plain it's likely to be seen as Scottish.

Hopefully there is some comfort in that for people who don't approve of members of the Irish diaspora's continuation of the early Irish nationalists appropriation of Scotland's national attire; it apparently hasn't had much impact of the British public's perception of the kilt. Can you corroborate or contradict Jock's assertion that a solid kilt in Scotland would likely be viewed as the sign of either an Irish Guard piper or an American tourist?

[Jock Scot]

If I can jump in before Paul answers. You did ask me a question in a "pipe band" context and I answered in a "pipe band" context. A bandsman is usually in a uniform of some sort with an appropriate instrument. A tourist is wearing a T shirt(?), wet weather gear(!) and carrying a camera!