Irish Kilts: solid vs. tartan

[lukeyrobertson]

One day in a bookstore I was wearing my army green hemp kilt by Rkilts. A kind woman approached me and having just returned from Ireland, she wondered if my kilt was Irish. On her journeys she had learned about solid coloured kilts in Ireland. I thought it a fine exchange.

This thread has also got me wondering about tweed kilts. It seems to me that tweed is a common cloth through the regions of Ireland and Scotland. For those who might know, would a tweed kilt either solid or not, be fine in either country? This asked regardless of touristy perceptions. I do think the tweed factor matters here for some reason.

[MacSpadger]

Actually, from this and other threads, it seems like the solid color kilts, as Jock seems to indicate, are being associated with or perceived as American tourist kilts, and by extension, American kilts. I also do not seem to be detecting a call or demand for Irish kilts by Irish people living in Ireland.

So… perhaps the solid color kilt could be the American kilt… Especially if it is oddly designed or constructed compared to the traditional Scottish kilt…

That sounds fine to me, or at least better than projecting kilts on the Irish when they might not be of any real interest to most people in Ireland. Just thinking between the lines…

Well said, Bugbear, but what about the Utilikilt? Doesn't that fit the bill as an American kilt? The only Utilikilt I have ever seen was worn by an American tourist who looked and sounded like The Dude from Big Lebowski. He was a friendly enough chap with no Celtic leanings, I believe a band called the Grateful Dead was his musical choice if his T-Shirt could be taken as a guide. He wore a leather cowboy hat and sandals and was at ease with himself, shall we say.

Besides, the London Scottish have over 150 years of wearing a solid colour kilt and might take exception to being perceived as Americans.

This thread has also got me wondering about tweed kilts. It seems to me that tweed is a common cloth through the regions of Ireland and Scotland. For those who might know, would a tweed kilt either solid or not, be fine in either country? This asked regardless of touristy perceptions. I do think the tweed factor matters here for some reason.

As I said earlier in the thread, I have seen vintage Scottish tweed kilts. I can't really say if it would be fine in either country, as (outside of pipe bands), there does not seem to be much (if any), sightings of kilts in Ireland. Harking back to the London Scottish again, the earlier Hodden Grey kilts were very "tweedy" indeed. Scratchy!

[Bugbear]

Well said, Bugbear, but what about the Utilikilt? Doesn't that fit the bill as an American kilt? The only Utilikilt I have ever seen was worn by an American tourist who looked and sounded like The Dude from Big Lebowski. He was a friendly enough chap with no Celtic leanings, I believe a band called the Grateful Dead was his musical choice if his T-Shirt could be taken as a guide. He wore a leather cowboy hat and sandals and was at ease with himself, shall we say.

Besides, the London Scottish have over 150 years of wearing a solid colour kilt and might take exception to being perceived as Americans.

Ya, that's why I said a differently constructed kilt from the traditional Scottish kilt, and I suppose it only need be a weird looking, non-tartan kilt. I don't put tweed in that category, by the way.

My canvas kilt actually does have connections to the state in which I live, so why not think of it as an American style kilt. So, perhaps we are talking about Irish-American (meaning North American) kilts, more than "Irish kilts."

[dea3369]

While many non kilt-wearers aren't particularly educated about these sorts of nuances, especially outside the British Isles, I think you're right that a tartan kilt is more likely to be perceived as Scottish and a solid colour as Irish. This alone is a good reason for Irish kilt wearers to go solid and I've also been intrigued by the idea of tweed kilts recently.

I seriously doubt that many non-kilt-wearers would even consider a solid-color kilt to be Irish. To the vast majority of people, a traditional kilt is, by default, tartan, regardless of country of origin. I speak from experience because I'm a recent kilt lover (bought and wore my first kilt just three years ago) and have not heard that solid color kilts might be traditionally Irish. So, to the ill-informed, the uneducated, or the simply uncouth population, a solid color kilt is automatically a non-traditional kilt, regardless if it's saffron, green, or blue. So, be you may need to explain your traditional, solid-color kilt when you wear it, especially to us rookies. That way, we can learn all these wonderful nuances of kilts.

[CMcG]

As people are bringing out their opinions, it seems we assume the general public has very little kilt knowledge. It would be interesting if someone were to concoct a "Food for Thought" (à la Jock Scot) survey of non-kilt wearers to get a more statistical view! It seems that a majority of non-kilt people will likely see any kilt as Scottish. People with more knowledge on the subject will be the ones able to discriminate more finely based on details about a wearer's outfit and the circumstance.

...
Besides, the London Scottish have over 150 years of wearing a solid colour kilt and might take exception to being perceived as Americans.

Their hodden grey is certainly very distinctive and anyone who knows about kilts would associate it with their regiment.

Ya, that's why I said a differently constructed kilt from the traditional Scottish kilt, and I suppose it only need be a weird looking, non-tartan kilt. I don't put tweed in that category, by the way.

My canvas kilt actually does have connections to the state in which I live, so why not think of it as an American style kilt. So, perhaps we are talking about Irish-American (meaning North American) kilts, more than "Irish kilts."

As we split these hairs then, an American kilt would be a MUG in the style of a Utilikilt. These were invented in the US and their only connection to the Scottish kilt is the fact that the word "kilt" has come to mean any knee length unbifurcated garment with aprons in the front and pleats in the back. Don't believe me? Ask the OED.

Given that the kilt never achieved wide acceptance as national attire amongst the Irish in Ireland, mention of the civilian Irish kilt (CIK?) in contemporary times should henceforth be understood as always hypenated: e.g. Irish-Canadian, etc. This better explains the fact that it is NOT national attire, but rather a way of manifesting a certain form of ethnic identity.

This further refines the question. When you (a person with some education about kilts) sees a civilian in a solid saffron or green kilt, what do you assume it to symbolize? For those who say they would bet the person is an American, a tourist, or both, would you think that person is "playing at being Irish" to use the language of the Highland Scots Position? Or are they "playing at being a Scot" but don't have a clan tartan and haven't figured out that there are district or universal tartans

Before anyone jumps down my throat about the "playing at" terminology, I actually take play seriously. It also helps to put my question into language that some of the respondents might better engage with.

[Blackrose87]

Given that the kilt never achieved wide acceptance as national attire amongst the Irish in Ireland, mention of the civilian Irish kilt (CIK?) in contemporary times should henceforth be understood as always hypenated: e.g. Irish-Canadian, etc. This better explains the fact that it is NOT national attire, but rather a way of manifesting a certain form of ethnic identity.

I don't think we can completely rule out those who wear the kilt in Ireland.
Although the civilian population wearing the kilt is quite low throughout the whole country, there still is a significant enough culture of Scottish influenced traditions in parts of the north.
The Ulster-scots do have a tradition of wearing kilts, both solid colours and tartans. They tend to wear them at parades, ceilidhs, weddings and various formal events, but I'm not sure if many would wear them day to day.
Now, these are worn to express their Scottish ancestry, but they have have settled in Ireland for around 400 years now, so I see it as having evolved into an Irish tradition.

Yes, the kilt may not be the national attire of Ireland, but there are still pockets who wear them.

[Bugbear]

No! they're playing at being an American tourist!

[CMcG]

I don't think we can completely rule out those who wear the kilt in Ireland.
Although the civilian population wearing the kilt is quite low throughout the whole country, there still is a significant enough culture of Scottish influenced traditions in parts of the north.
The Ulster-scots do have a tradition of wearing kilts, both solid colours and tartans. They tend to wear them at parades, ceilidhs, weddings and various formal events, but I'm not sure if many would wear them day to day.
Now, these are worn to express their Scottish ancestry, but they have have settled in Ireland for around 400 years now, so I see it as having evolved into an Irish tradition.

Yes, the kilt may not be the national attire of Ireland, but there are still pockets who wear them.

I would be very happy not rule out kilt wearing in Ireland, so thanks for this clear statement of how things are in the North. Bu the way, I hear there aren't that many daily kilt-wearers anywhere these days... except maybe on Xmarks What a wonderful example too of transnationalism to have people expressing such a hybrid identity.

No! they're playing at being an American tourist!

[macwilkin]

No! they're playing at being an American tourist!

http://www.sairish.co.za/gallery/images/IMG_0789.jpg

Hopefully no one would mistake the South African Irish Regiment for Seppo tourists.

T.

[Bugbear]

http://www.sairish.co.za/gallery/images/IMG_0789.jpg

Hopefully no one would mistake the South African Irish Regiment for Seppo tourists.

T.

You never know.

I do think Jock said something about uniforms not counting as tourist garb, to be fair.