More on Septs

[Chas]

I agree with you, MacSpadger. The problem is human nature - people want to know.

I run a tent at the Harpenden Highland Games every year. It is mainly an advertising show piece for XMarks. One of the hooks I have to get people to come in is "Find out what your clan is". I have an alphabetical list of over 30,000 names and the clans that they are supposed to be associated with. It is nothing special, just a list that I have trawled from the internet; mainly clan sites.

The thing is, from the 10:00 start till the 16:00 finish, there are always queues. People are desperate to know. Last year, I took it up to the Hawick Games. I must admit, I had some fear and trepidation. It was after all a cheek, going to Scotland to talk to Scots about the right way to wear a kilt. I need not have worried - the same hunger was there. Young and old, they all wanted to know.

It might very well all be crap, but it seems to be a glue-like crap that binds so many lives together.

Regards

Chas

[MacSpadger]

It might very well all be crap, but it seems to be a glue-like crap that binds so many lives together.

Regards

Chas

Chas, that really did make me laugh out loud!

[creagdhubh]

According to my Chief, Sir William Alan Macpherson of Cluny and Blairgowrie, TD, as well as Clan Macpherson Chieftains, armigers, our clan sennachie, guardians and the majority of Macpherson clansmen and clanswomen, the word 'sept' does not exist within the confines and organisation of our clan, and never has. Instead, we refer to divisions or associations within the Clan Macpherson as 'associated families of the Clan Macpherson' and not 'septs of the Clan Macpherson.'

Cluny, as well as his predecessors, has always maintained that the word sept is an Irish Gaelic word meaning a 'clan' or 'family' and in Scottish Gaelic, clann translates to 'children,' so it may be correct in saying that there are indeed some degrees of separation between the use of 'clan' and 'sept,' especially from clan to clan. And simply how each chief wishes to designate and call the smaller families that have long/traditionally associated with a larger Highland clan for a place to live as tennants; eventually becoming extremely loyal to their chief, regardless of having a different surname, ultimately gaining the protection of the clan, yet were also called to arms for battle with neighboring clans, the English, etc.

There is no such thing as a 'sept' list within the Clan Macpherson Association, rather there is a list of associated families approved by our Chief. However, Cluny has stated that the Clan Macpherson may be considered a 'sept' of the Clan Chattan Confederation, since the Clan Chattan is a confederacy composed and structured by various Highland clans located throughout Inverness-shire and surrounding areas. The Clan Macpherson (along with the Clan Mackintosh) is a leading Highland clan within the Clan Chattan Confederation.

Black's, Surnames of Scotland is an excellent resource for both Highland and Lowland surnames, as well as many common and uncommon 'associated' names.

Cheers,

[MacSpadger]

Cluny has always maintained that the word sept is an Irish Gaelic word meaning 'clan' or 'family'

Interesting. My dictionary has it as an English word derived from the Latin sept or saeptum, which sounds very un-Gaelic.

[Blackrose87]

Cluny has always maintained that the word sept is an Irish Gaelic word meaning 'clan' or 'family' and in Scottish Gaelic, clan translates to 'children,'

I'm not too sure about that. In Irish family is 'teaghlach', and children is 'clann'. Although clann can be used for family as well.
Sometimes 'cúram' is used for family or children (or business, or responsibilities)

But I dont think sept is used, at least not in modern Gaeilge. I had a check in my dictionary to be sure, and it's not in there.

[creagdhubh]

I'm not too sure about that. In Irish family is 'teaghlach', and children is 'clann'. Although clann can be used for family as well.
Sometimes 'cúram' is used for family or children (or business, or responsibilities)

But I done think sept is used, at least not in modern Gaeilge. I had a check in my dictionary to be sure, and it's not in there.

I suppose every person has their own traditions, beliefs, perspective and interpretations on the matter, as this is not the first time confusion in regards to the 'whole sept issue' as come up. And I'm really not one to have a debate with my Chief, he is a retired High Court Judge! Hahaha!

Cluny and I in 2007.


Cheers,