Vest - White or black with Prince Charles

[ScotFree]

...but please wear a proper shirt and detachable collar.

Detachable collar? Please enlighten me. I've not heard of such.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Detachable collar? Please enlighten me. I've not heard of such.

Evening shirts have a detachable collar. This allows the wearer to choose not only the proper neck size (16 1/2, etc.) but how high the collar is. The stiff wing collar is attached to the shirt with two studs, one in the back, and the other in the front where the shirt would normally button at the throat. Needless to say, such shirts aren't cheap. I buy mine from either New & Lingwood, or Budd, both in London. Typically I pay around £140-150 for the shirt, and about £8 for the collar.

[ScotFree]

Evening shirts have a detachable collar. This allows the wearer to choose not only the proper neck size (16 1/2, etc.) but how high the collar is. The stiff wing collar is attached to the shirt with two studs, one in the back, and the other in the front where the shirt would normally button at the throat. Needless to say, such shirts aren't cheap. I buy mine from either New & Lingwood, or Budd, both in London. Typically I pay around £140-150 for the shirt, and about £8 for the collar.

You learn something new everyday. I've had evening shirts of varying styles over the years. I have, however, never encountered one with a detachable collar. But then, in the price point I shop, I wouldn't I suppose. I certainly don't travel in circles where anyone I would probably ever likely know would invite me to an event that required a shirt of that formality. The occasional tux,yes, but white tie events are way out of my league.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Actually, it looks to me that he's wearing the belt over the waistcoat. I can see the tails of the vest peeking out from under the belt.

It looks like all but one person in the photo is wearing a sash of some sort. The sash might be significant to the event rather than a style in and of itself.

The sashes (more properly referred to as a cordon or broad ribband) are indicative of membership in an order of chivalry or merit, and are worn by those who hold the first, or highest, class of membership in that order. Most orders are divided into five classes: 5th (knight), 4th (knight officer), 3rd (knight commander), 2nd (knight grand officer), 1st (knight grand cross). In Britain the 5th thru 3rd grades are usually denominated as Member, Officer, and Commander, with knighthoods attached only to the 2nd and 1st classes of an order. There are some orders which exist with only one rank, the Order of the Thistle (as worn by HM the Queen Mother in the photograph posted above) being but one example. Each order has it's own regulations about the wearing of the cordon, and some (like the Garter or Thistle) are worn over the left shoulder, while most others are worn over the right shoulder, resting on the opposite hip. In civilian attire cordons are universally worn with white tie on appropriate occasions. Usually the cordon is worn under the jacket, but over the waistcoat. The exception occurs with some European orders when the cordon is worn under the waistcoat except in the presence of the grand master of the order when it is worn over the waistcoat.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Here is a pic of the members of the Royal Family at a white tie function in highland attire

It looks like HRH the Duke of Gloucester is wearing the cordon of the Civil and Military Order of Adolph of Nassau (Luxembourg); HRH Princess Margaret is wearing the cordon of The Royal Victorian Order; HRH the Prince of Wales is wearing the cordon of the Swedish Noble Order of the Seraphim and on his left leg the Most Noble Order of the Garter; HM is wearing the Seraphim, as is HM the King of Sweden; the gentleman behind the king (whom I believe to be Jean, Grand Duke of Luxembourg) is wearing the Swedish Royal Order of Vasa, and HM the Queen Mother is wearing the Order of the Thistle; HRH Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh, is also wearing the Order of the Seraphim and on his left leg, the Garter.

Feel free to correct me if I've erred.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

You learn something new everyday. I've had evening shirts of varying styles over the years. I have, however, never encountered one with a detachable collar. But then, in the price point I shop, I wouldn't I suppose. I certainly don't travel in circles where anyone I would probably ever likely know would invite me to an event that required a shirt of that formality. The occasional tux,yes, but white tie events are way out of my league.

The only requirement with white tie is a wing collar; attached or detached is a matter of personal preference. When I lived in Europe the main reason I wore a detachable collar is that not every place was air conditioned and after three or four hours it was great to retreat to the cloakroom, give my neck a quick wipe with cold water, change my collar and tie, and return to the foray somewhat refreshed. (Proper tail coats have long, narrow pockets in the tails where you can keep a spare collar and white tie, just in case.) I don't think white tie events are "way out of [your] league" (simply because you asked you are in the right league), rather I think that they just don't occur with the same frequency in the United States as they do in Europe. Which is a pity, as nothing looks better than a woman elegantly turned out for a white tie event. *sigh*

[OC Richard]

In the old days (1920s 1930s etc) Prince Charlies were often worn with red waistcoats, or tartan waistcoats. The advantage to this is you don't have to worry about matching the nonkilted gents.

Note here, in 1936, that neither of the Prince Charlies shown are black.

[SlackerDrummer]

In the old days (1920s 1930s etc) Prince Charlies were often worn with red waistcoats, or tartan waistcoats. The advantage to this is you don't have to worry about matching the nonkilted gents.

Note here, in 1936, that neither of the Prince Charlies shown are black.

I note in the text, "...as illustrated on page23,..." Can we see that page, too?

[Friday]

Choices, choices, choices I am sooooo cornfused (Pennsylvanian for confused) Now I am going to have to buy a black vest (I don't think I will ever be invited to a white tie event) and make a tartan vest.

[David Thorpe]

Now I am going to have to buy a black vest (I don't think I will ever be invited to a white tie event) and make a tartan vest.

If you have not yet bought your PC coatee, you might consider getting a matching vest with it. PC vests usually have silver buttons and lapels which match those on the jacket.