Membership Discussion of Possible Change to Rule #12

[Steve Ashton]

Hi folks,

I pose a question to all.

Just how far does a thread have to go off the original topic, or off the chosen topic of this forum, before someone must step in a call enough?

This thread has just been reported yet again.

Until the staff have had a chance to log on and discuss this latest report I am moving this thread to the cooling off corner.

[Mael Coluim]

The staff has concluded its deliberations and decided to reopen this thread.

[mookien]

... which only goes to show that you can't keep a good thread down ...

I would write something more substantive, but I can't remember what this thread is about.

[Steve Ashton]

I think this is one of those cases where a glimpse into the goings on behind the scenes is warranted.

The Moderators have been voting on 5 reports made against this thread almost since it began. I can tell you that this thread came very close to being locked on more than one occasion.

The reason it would be locked is because it was going into the realm of a political discussion. I know, it seemed that the thread was about religion but it wasn't. It was about the separation of church and state. That is a political issue.

It is also an issue that discussion here would not and could not resolve. The only way it was going to go was poorly.

Then the discussion went way off topic. The thread was then reported for a possible violation of Rule #12.

The Moderators decided to move this thread to the Misc, Section where discussion about non-kilt subjects is allowed within reason.

The Moderators then had to vote on a report that it had gone far off the original topic. The decision of that vote was that the current topic broke no rules and therefore the thread could continue.

Now, a small caution. If this thread returns to a discussion of politics I am pretty sure it will be reported again and I'm pretty sure it will be closed.
I also hope that if you want to discuss Hobbits and other topics that you start a new thread to do so. (Why you would want to discuss Hobbits on a kilt forum is a mystery to me when there are many forums out there set up just for that purpose.)

The ultimate wish of the Moderators is that you can have good discussions, and that this is a forum where you feel comfortable and can have fun with your friends. The only thing I ask is that you keep it a comfortable and fun place. Leave your politics at the door. There are many other forums where politics are the chosen topic. And then respect your friends by keeping threads on their original topic or start a new thread.

If your keeping this thread going just to keep the original topic alive I'm afraid that that is the action of a troll. That is not the way to show respect to the other members of this forum who come here to talk about kilts.

[piperdbh]

Hi folks,

I pose a question to all.

Just how far does a thread have to go off the original topic, or off the chosen topic of this forum, before someone must step in a call enough?

Here's my answer to Steve's question.
When a member poses a question or an item for discussion, and it gets answered and/or discussed all that's necessary, and then somebody introduces a new topic, which leads to its own discussion, then XMTS is working the way I think it should work. When the new, not-original-topic is deemed "Off Topic" and its thread gets locked, then XMTS is not working the way I think it should work. In my experience, the conversations that arise from and spin off from original topics are far more interesting, creative and enjoyable than the ones that stick only to a specific topic with no chance of introducing new material. In this thread, the issue of the churches being against the Tilted Kilt has been discussed thoroughly and all who wanted to say something have had their chance. Somebody introduced science fiction and Hobbits, which I thought was a beautiful way of defusing what could have become an inflammatory thread. In my opinion, this thread shows what XMTS is supposed to be: adult-thinking people who can post ideas, pictures, questions, criticisms, etc., and who can also "steer the ship" away from danger and back into an open, polite, free-form conversation. When I meet other X-Markers, discussion of the kilt is usually the conversation-starter, but from there we talk about anything anybody brings up. I think we should be able to do the same thing here, as long as we abide by the rules concerning forbidden topics.

[mookien]

Here's my answer to Steve's question.
When a member poses a question or an item for discussion, and it gets answered and/or discussed all that's necessary, and then somebody introduces a new topic, which leads to its own discussion, then XMTS is working the way I think it should work. ...

I think we should be able to do the same thing here, as long as we abide by the rules concerning forbidden topics.

I agree.

A complication implicit in that philosophy arises, however, when some of the posters wish to continue discussing the original topic, but others choose to pursue the new topic(s). It's a bit more difficult to follow multiple conversations in a linear thread. But, on the other hand, it does add an element of chaos.

[CDNSushi]

A complication implicit in that philosophy arises, however, when some of the posters wish to continue discussing the original topic, but others choose to pursue the new topic(s). It's a bit more difficult to follow multiple conversations in a linear thread. But, on the other hand, it does add an element of chaos.

Please also bear in mind, that the moderators are here to help and serve the members -- not just to be the big, bad, wolf who comes to lock down threads or warn people that rules are being broken...

If, at any point, the OP of a thread feels that their thread has been (or is being thread-jacked), then please let us know; you have the right to request that your thread be locked (if it has served its purpose), or that the mods issue a notice that the thread should get back on topic, or even that perhaps the thread could be split and spun-off into a new thread. That way, those who wish to continue discussing the original topic may do so, and those who have moved on can have their own thread. No matter what though, the best strategy is to communicate with the moderators -- don't just think that the only time you should talk to them are when someone is breaking a rule.

JD

[Steve Ashton]

In another thread a discussion of a possible change to rule #12 was being discussed.

I have moved the posts dealing with that discussion here so it may continue with the full membership's participation.

[AKScott]

I like Xmarks just the way it is with all the rules just the way they are.

I don't post nearly as much as I used to; it took me about a year to get comfortable wearing a kilt, that involved some questions. Now that I more or less know what I am doing, I do stop by daily to keep an eye on the place, but I don't have really anything substantive to add to most threads.

On a more or less daily basis I visit here, a car forum and a rule #11 forum. Plenty of drama on the other two, I think XMarks as currently constructed is a terrific resource. Folks new to kilt wearing (me anyway) really need(ed) a place to be accepted and ask stupid questions and feel like I wasn't being made fun of or made to feel less than.

Under the current rules Xmarks is a terrific place for a new kilt wearer to find easily with google, instantly belong to an international community as a respected individual and not feel like a deviant wierdo for wearing a kilt. Lots and lots of pictures of respectable people wearing kilts respectably without any (or at least very minimal) of the attention getting bravado that characterizes so much of the rest of the internet.

That's one reason I keep stopping by day after day, I can point my browser at this URL and NOT read about the upcoming election in the USA and NOT read about which Hollywood celebrity whatever. For me this a place to be accepted and talk about kilts as a normal part of a gentleman's wardrobe. I like it exactly like it is.

Could Steve get more traffic if he opened a no holds barred debate room? Probably. Could he get more advertising revenue based on his increased traffic? Probably. Would that make it easier for n00bs to look smart in their new kilts? Probably not.

As much as I hate that damn rule #11, my vote for Xmarks is to keep all 12 rules intact.

[O'Callaghan]

I don't think the original discussion was OT for the forum it was in. The bar does not just have kilt in the name, it also has kilts on the waitresses, and the complaints from the church concerned, inter alia, the shortness of same (the kilts, not the waitresses who were wearing them). Of course, we have some members who assert that a kilt on a woman is not a kilt, but I don't buy that. That would be another discussion, which fortunately no-one started.

As for hobbits, etc., yes that isn't kilts in the media, so belongs in another forum. That could have moved and a link added to the original thread telling anyone who cared where those posts had gone, just as was done when creating this thread. No need for drama.