Membership Discussion of Possible Change to Rule #12

[piperdbh]

Hi folks,

I pose a question to all.

Just how far does a thread have to go off the original topic, or off the chosen topic of this forum, before someone must step in a call enough?

Here's my answer to Steve's question.
When a member poses a question or an item for discussion, and it gets answered and/or discussed all that's necessary, and then somebody introduces a new topic, which leads to its own discussion, then XMTS is working the way I think it should work. When the new, not-original-topic is deemed "Off Topic" and its thread gets locked, then XMTS is not working the way I think it should work. In my experience, the conversations that arise from and spin off from original topics are far more interesting, creative and enjoyable than the ones that stick only to a specific topic with no chance of introducing new material. In this thread, the issue of the churches being against the Tilted Kilt has been discussed thoroughly and all who wanted to say something have had their chance. Somebody introduced science fiction and Hobbits, which I thought was a beautiful way of defusing what could have become an inflammatory thread. In my opinion, this thread shows what XMTS is supposed to be: adult-thinking people who can post ideas, pictures, questions, criticisms, etc., and who can also "steer the ship" away from danger and back into an open, polite, free-form conversation. When I meet other X-Markers, discussion of the kilt is usually the conversation-starter, but from there we talk about anything anybody brings up. I think we should be able to do the same thing here, as long as we abide by the rules concerning forbidden topics.

[mookien]

Here's my answer to Steve's question.
When a member poses a question or an item for discussion, and it gets answered and/or discussed all that's necessary, and then somebody introduces a new topic, which leads to its own discussion, then XMTS is working the way I think it should work. ...

I think we should be able to do the same thing here, as long as we abide by the rules concerning forbidden topics.

I agree.

A complication implicit in that philosophy arises, however, when some of the posters wish to continue discussing the original topic, but others choose to pursue the new topic(s). It's a bit more difficult to follow multiple conversations in a linear thread. But, on the other hand, it does add an element of chaos.

[CDNSushi]

A complication implicit in that philosophy arises, however, when some of the posters wish to continue discussing the original topic, but others choose to pursue the new topic(s). It's a bit more difficult to follow multiple conversations in a linear thread. But, on the other hand, it does add an element of chaos.

Please also bear in mind, that the moderators are here to help and serve the members -- not just to be the big, bad, wolf who comes to lock down threads or warn people that rules are being broken...

If, at any point, the OP of a thread feels that their thread has been (or is being thread-jacked), then please let us know; you have the right to request that your thread be locked (if it has served its purpose), or that the mods issue a notice that the thread should get back on topic, or even that perhaps the thread could be split and spun-off into a new thread. That way, those who wish to continue discussing the original topic may do so, and those who have moved on can have their own thread. No matter what though, the best strategy is to communicate with the moderators -- don't just think that the only time you should talk to them are when someone is breaking a rule.

JD

[Steve Ashton]

In another thread a discussion of a possible change to rule #12 was being discussed.

I have moved the posts dealing with that discussion here so it may continue with the full membership's participation.

[AKScott]

I like Xmarks just the way it is with all the rules just the way they are.

I don't post nearly as much as I used to; it took me about a year to get comfortable wearing a kilt, that involved some questions. Now that I more or less know what I am doing, I do stop by daily to keep an eye on the place, but I don't have really anything substantive to add to most threads.

On a more or less daily basis I visit here, a car forum and a rule #11 forum. Plenty of drama on the other two, I think XMarks as currently constructed is a terrific resource. Folks new to kilt wearing (me anyway) really need(ed) a place to be accepted and ask stupid questions and feel like I wasn't being made fun of or made to feel less than.

Under the current rules Xmarks is a terrific place for a new kilt wearer to find easily with google, instantly belong to an international community as a respected individual and not feel like a deviant wierdo for wearing a kilt. Lots and lots of pictures of respectable people wearing kilts respectably without any (or at least very minimal) of the attention getting bravado that characterizes so much of the rest of the internet.

That's one reason I keep stopping by day after day, I can point my browser at this URL and NOT read about the upcoming election in the USA and NOT read about which Hollywood celebrity whatever. For me this a place to be accepted and talk about kilts as a normal part of a gentleman's wardrobe. I like it exactly like it is.

Could Steve get more traffic if he opened a no holds barred debate room? Probably. Could he get more advertising revenue based on his increased traffic? Probably. Would that make it easier for n00bs to look smart in their new kilts? Probably not.

As much as I hate that damn rule #11, my vote for Xmarks is to keep all 12 rules intact.

[O'Callaghan]

I don't think the original discussion was OT for the forum it was in. The bar does not just have kilt in the name, it also has kilts on the waitresses, and the complaints from the church concerned, inter alia, the shortness of same (the kilts, not the waitresses who were wearing them). Of course, we have some members who assert that a kilt on a woman is not a kilt, but I don't buy that. That would be another discussion, which fortunately no-one started.

As for hobbits, etc., yes that isn't kilts in the media, so belongs in another forum. That could have moved and a link added to the original thread telling anyone who cared where those posts had gone, just as was done when creating this thread. No need for drama.

[madmacs]

I'll add my 1/50th of a dollar if I may...

One of the problems I see is that the way I read the forum is using the new posts button, it is very easy to miss the forum which something is posted in when doing this.

Does that occur with other people? I'm guessing yes... Is that a problem? In itself probably not, but it does lead to things having the possibility of going off topic quicker...

Do I have a fix for that? Nope, sorry, twas more of an observation...

[Steve Ashton]

In posts 18 and 19 to this thread Tobus and Mookien asked direct questions.


The best answer we can give is that the staff have been aware for some time that a re-write of Rule #12 may clear up any apparent confusion. This is why we brought this to the general membership. We would like your input, suggestions and comments.

[Jock Scot]

Dual post, deleted.

[Jock Scot]

I was once told by a renowned leader of men that "rules are for the guidance of wise men and the blind adherence of idiots".

In my years on this website there has been an awful lot of wisdom and thankfully precious little sign of idiocy. Yes, it never hurts to adjust the rules if circumstance dictates it and an open discussion could identify a need for change. That is healthy and shows strong leadership when "the management" are not above asking for opinions.

We do have a wonderful website----perfect? Well no, but pretty near, I would suggest when compared to many websites, but can we do better? Probably, but one thing is for sure change for change sake will not help one bit. So what would I like to see for Rule 12?

Well as long as we have "meander" room(we do) and the members accept that each Mod has his own level of tolerance of discretion(the members do, I think), then most of the time all will be well. Will it be perfect? No. But for sure, the more complicated the wording of any rule, the more stifling, illogical and frustrating it will get(sadly like rule 11)to some members and I for one would not want that.