1680 Picture questions.

[Jock Scot]

Well my eyes are not as sharp as they might be, but I cannot see a sporran on either subject. What I can see, I think, is some sort of tassel hanging from the belt of the fellow in the foreground. As to the "plaid", the subjects are depicted as being out doors and it would be expected that they would be dressed accordingly. No Gortex in those days! So using a length of woven wool as protection makes sense. I am no expert here, but green and black dies would have been available so a weaver could easily produce a simple patterned cloth, however I doubt that the idea of a tartan as such would have entered any one's head in those days. Well you did ask!

[Henry Mc]

Well my eyes are not as sharp as they might be, but I cannot see a sporran on either subjects. What I can see, I think, is some sort of tassel hanging from the belt of the fellow in the foreground. As to the "plaid", the subjects are depicted as being out doors and it would be expected that they would be dressed accordingly. No Gortex in those days! So using a length of woven wool as protection makes sense. I am no expert here, but green and black dies would have been available so a weaver could easily produce a simple patterned cloth, however I doubt that the idea of a tartan as such would have entered any one's head in those days. Well you did ask!

Thanks jc, but you'll notice behind the tassel there is a sub-triangular piece of cloth, the tassels could be the 'purse strings' of the triangular sporran!

The servant also seems to have a similar 'sporran' or at least the same tassels so there is some kind of fashion statement (!) or whatever going on.

[Jock Scot]

Well of course you may be right. I have to say I thought the triangular whatsits were "modesty protectors".

[Dale-of-Cedars]

Personally I find the Japanese Kozane Do-Maru armour with a set of greaves, lying in the lower left, very interesting. And just to circle back to the topic at hand, the lower panels of that style of armour gave the samauri warrior a kilted appearance.

"At Sir Neil's feet, lower left, lies a closely observed, though incomplete, suit of Japanese armour. Its presence is a puzzle, for although Japan had been closed to Westerners since the 1620s, John Michael Wright clearly must have had access to such armour. It is of a style called 'Do-Maru', meaning 'round the body'; worn during the period c.1350-1530, it was of a type kept as gifts for eminent people."
http://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/...-oneill-t00132

[Chas]

This is a link to a better image -



I don't think those are sporrans.

Regards

Chas

[Henry Mc]

This is a link to a better image -



I don't think those are sporrans.

Regards

Chas

This is from Martin Martin's Description of Hebridean Men's Clothing...

"Many of the people wear trews. Some have them very fine woven like stockings of those made of cloth. Some are coloured, and others striped. The latter are as well shaped as the former, lying close to the body from the middle downwards, and tied round with a belt above the haunches. There is a square piece of cloth which hangs down before. The measure for shaping the trews is a stick of wood, whose length is a cubit, and that divided into the length of a finger and a half a finger, so that it requires more skill to make it than the ordinary habit.

[figheadair]

This is from Martin Martin's Description of Hebridean Men's Clothing...

"Many of the people wear trews. Some have them very fine woven like stockings of those made of cloth. Some are coloured, and others striped. The latter are as well shaped as the former, lying close to the body from the middle downwards, and tied round with a belt above the haunches. There is a square piece of cloth which hangs down before. The measure for shaping the trews is a stick of wood, whose length is a cubit, and that divided into the length of a finger and a half a finger, so that it requires more skill to make it than the ordinary habit.

One needs to treat Martin's observations with a degree of caution. He was a Factor on Skye but it is not at all certain that he was a native Sgianach and his statement about 'sett sticks' demonstrates that he clearly had no understanding of the weaving process or what he was reporting on. By ‘striped’ did Martin mean checked/tartan? How long was the cubit stick? We don’t know for certain as a cubit has been defined variously but a rough guesstimate would be 18” x 5”. How exactly a piece of wood that size is used ‘for shaping the trews’ is anyone’s guess but the reference suggests that some form of measuring, cutting and sewing was involved. All in all very unhelpful.

[OC Richard]

It was customary for portraitists to paint their subjects from life.

My assumption, therefore, would be that the subject is dressed precisely as he posed before the artist.

There is a clear distinction to be made between portraitists and illustrators. Portraitists are hired by the subject. Illustrators are given a job by a publisher, and use whatever source material they can find.

[Henry Mc]

Personally I find the Japanese Kozane Do-Maru armour with a set of greaves, lying in the lower left, very interesting. And just to circle back to the topic at hand, the lower panels of that style of armour gave the samauri warrior a kilted appearance.

"At Sir Neil's feet, lower left, lies a closely observed, though incomplete, suit of Japanese armour. Its presence is a puzzle, for although Japan had been closed to Westerners since the 1620s, John Michael Wright clearly must have had access to such armour. It is of a style called 'Do-Maru', meaning 'round the body'; worn during the period c.1350-1530, it was of a type kept as gifts for eminent people."
http://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/...-oneill-t00132

I heard an explanation for this.

Seemingly at the time anything Japanese was shorthand for the irreligious/heathen etc, therefore he was lording it over the heathens in a similar way to the way in medieval art the hero would stand on a dragon/snake or whatever.