Commonwealth of Nations

[McClef]

Okay gonna stick my neck out on this one, as I don't have any history books at hand; but as I recall ...
the idea of "Great Britain" and the Union flag arose out of the ascension of James I and VI to the throne of England; and the subsequent great excitement (especially in Whitehall) with the idea of a united monarchy over all of the British Isles.

...but I'm sure someone else will correct me on that.

The Union of the Crowns (1603) was a personal thing in terms of the person of the Monarch as the two countries remained totally independent with their own Parliaments for just over 100 years. In Scotland James remained purely known as James VI and in England purely as James I as England had never previously had a King named James.

The Union of the Parliaments, which led to the dissolution of the Scottish Parliament and the transfer of its powers to London took place in 1707 under Queen Anne, James' Great Granddaughter. As there had been no previous Anne in either kingdom the numbering was not needed and indeed will not be unless we end up with a second Queen Anne at some stage.

The reasons for 1707 are open to some debate but it was then that the Saltire was added to the flag. Scotland was sometimes referred to as "North Britain" from that time also.

Even in 1603 though James became not only King of England but also of Wales and Ireland which came with the English throne as well.

The first Commonwealth came under Oliver Cromwell as an attempt to replace the Monarchy but it failed miserably and the Scots were the first to proclaim Charles II only a few days after his father's execution and indeed they crowned him at Scone on January 1st 1651.

Ireland kept its own Parliament until 1801 when they also were merged into the Westminster one.

Hope this displays the difference between the two events a little more.

[Peter Crowe]

The Union of the Crowns (1603) was a personal thing in terms of the person of the Monarch as the two countries remained totally independent with their own Parliaments for just over 100 years. In Scotland James remained purely known as James VI and in England purely as James I as England had never previously had a King named James.

The Union of the Parliaments, which led to the dissolution of the Scottish Parliament and the transfer of its powers to London took place in 1707 under Queen Anne, James' Great Granddaughter. As there had been no previous Anne in either kingdom the numbering was not needed and indeed will not be unless we end up with a second Queen Anne at some stage.

The reasons for 1707 are open to some debate but it was then that the Saltire was added to the flag. Scotland was sometimes referred to as "North Britain" from that time also.

Even in 1603 though James became not only King of England but also of Wales and Ireland which came with the English throne as well.

The first Commonwealth came under Oliver Cromwell as an attempt to replace the Monarchy but it failed miserably and the Scots were the first to proclaim Charles II only a few days after his father's execution and indeed they crowned him at Scone on January 1st 1651.

Ireland kept its own Parliament until 1801 when they also were merged into the Westminster one.

Hope this displays the difference between the two events a little more.

You are of course correct Trefor in Constitutional terms.

However, James VI and I was personally in favour of a more complete Union between England and Scotland, and did often style himself as "King of Great Britain', although that entity did not yet legally (constitutionally) exist until 1707.

As to the Union Flag, A version of it was flown by warships of the Jacobean and Caroline (English) Royal Navy, but the Ensign remained the Red Ensign with the Cross of St. George in the canton. The 'Old Scots Navy' (Royal Scottish Navy pre-1707) flew a similar red ensign with the Saltire of St. Andrew in the canton. This ensign is being flown unofficially by some Scottish boat-owners in rceent years in place of the standard British Red Ensign. Ironically the Red Ensign of today's Merchant Navy was the senior of the Naval Ensigns, when the different squadrons of the RN flew red, white, or blue ensigns. ((Way of Topic-sorry)).

[McClef]

I will leave the flags to the vexillologists Peter

James, however, was not famous for his visits to Scotland after 1603, he only made one more visit between his accession in 1603 and death in 1625 which was in 1617.

Of course traveling was much more difficult in those days, but even so it's not an impressive statistic. Now of course the Queen is able to reach any part of the Commonwealth in a matter of hours or a day or two at the most. Communications then were dependent upon relays of horsemen and written letters. Not that long ago before the Internet, even an airmail letter to the USA could take up to three days.

It's kind of humbling to see what we have now compared with then.