Even in the Hebrides

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I wonder what the point is you are trying to prove? I'm not meaning to say as an accusation. Just an observation. If all you want to do is to demonstrate that native Scots who wear the kilt in Scotland sometimes wear white and/or ecru hose and make fashion faux pas such as wearing a waist belt and a waistcoat at the same time, I don't think that point was in question. One can find plenty of evidence of this simply by doing a Google search, browsing the web pages of Highland dress suppliers, or walking down the streets of Edinburgh.

I don't think I have ever heard it said that wearing ecru hose is "something Americans do" that "is never done in Scotland." People who don't like ecru hose generally hold that opinion for aesthetic reasons. They just don't like the way they look as much as other colors. And I know plenty of people with that opinion within and without Scotland.

Wearing a waist belt (or dirk belt) with a waistcoat is something that has become more and more common over time, and I chalk it up to the decline in knowledge of formal dress in general among most people. But if you go back and look at older examples I doubt you will find this done very often, if at all. I don't think being in Scotland or Canada, or Boston, or Australia would have anything to do with it.

Scotland is the home of Highland Dress, yes. And those of us outside of Scotland look to her still to inform us as to the genuine traditions of kilt wearing. But there is still a lot of room for personal tastes and preferences, and we have to realize that just because one person -- or a lot of people -- in Scotland wear their kilt a certain way that does not necessarily mean that we will want to do the same.

No doubt there are plenty of people in Scotland who wear ecru hose and waist belts with their waistcoats. And I don't doubt there are plenty of people in Scotland who would never do either of those things. And there are plenty of people in North America who hold both of those opinions, as well. After all, we get the same Highland Dress catalogs, we look at the same web sites, etc. This is one case where I just don't think geography has much to do with it.

[Grizzled Ian]

Scotland is the home of Highland Dress, yes. And those of us outside of Scotland look to her still to inform us as to the genuine traditions of kilt wearing. But there is still a lot of room for personal tastes and preferences, and we have to realize that just because one person -- or a lot of people -- in Scotland wear their kilt a certain way that does not necessarily mean that we will want to do the same.

A majority of readers of this thread (and of others like it) are aware, I am sure, that there is a distinction between the genuine traditions that Matt refers to, and more adventurous/casual/modern approaches to kilt wearing. Some contributors to this thread make it clear that it is a pretty fine line that separates their approach from any other, but I suspect that an appreciable number of readers take a much broader approach, and embrace as acceptable alternates those styles of dress that some regard as gross violations of what they regard as the orthodox.

But I am glad that Matt refers to traditions (plural). This reminds us to accept a number of different styles as traditions, from the different eras of Scottish history, plus the 'tradition' best described as 'what was done when I was a boy', plus the tradition(s) being laid down now as people go about their kilt wearing with flair, innovation and taste. We may not like all such styles, but - there it is.

I regard as lamentable the passing of the tradition of all undergraduates learning Latin. Knowledge of Latin (or, I admit, of any other language) gives a much greater appreciation of English grammar and syntax, and improves the capacity to mount an argument, along with myriad other benefits. But I know that won't return, so I try to make the world a better place in ways other than campaigning for a reintroduction.

[Nathan]

A majority of readers of this thread (and of others like it) are aware, I am sure, that there is a distinction between the genuine traditions that Matt refers to, and more adventurous/casual/modern approaches to kilt wearing. Some contributors to this thread make it clear that it is a pretty fine line that separates their approach from any other, but I suspect that an appreciable number of readers take a much broader approach, and embrace as acceptable alternates those styles of dress that some regard as gross violations of what they regard as the orthodox.

But I am glad that Matt refers to traditions (plural). This reminds us to accept a number of different styles as traditions, from the different eras of Scottish history, plus the 'tradition' best described as 'what was done when I was a boy', plus the tradition(s) being laid down now as people go about their kilt wearing with flair, innovation and taste. We may not like all such styles, but - there it is.

I regard as lamentable the passing of the tradition of all undergraduates learning Latin. Knowledge of Latin (or, I admit, of any other language) gives a much greater appreciation of English grammar and syntax, and improves the capacity to mount an argument, along with myriad other benefits. But I know that won't return, so I try to make the world a better place in ways other than campaigning for a reintroduction.

I agree with most of the sentiments expressed here but I have to say I lament the loss of Gaidhlig more than Latin.

[TheOfficialBren]

I agree. Fashions DO change through the years. Look at any era of history and we see this as plainly as we do today. The internet and lightning-fast telecommunications may have had an enormous hand in hurrying along the dissemination of fashion trends, of course. These trends are rarely ever cut and dry stop and start phenomena.

Here is a case-in-point: when my granddaddy was a lad (at the close of the Great War and the 1920s) men wore braces for nearly every sort of trouser. Working on the farm, going to church, getting married, funerals, going to the pub, going 'into town', riding horses (they were a necessity still), and droving cattle---you get the idea. NOW, braces are so rarely seen. In my neck of the woods the only time that they are seen are on older men (passed sixty-years-of-age) who are dressed in their Sunday best and lean toward "classic" fashion rather than trends. Sure, the odd one or two younger men will be seen wearing them (usually an independently-minded or eccentric bussinessman with some hutzpah) but they are not common by any means. One notable person who does wear them is political commentor Bob Beckl.

This observation being made by an admittedly eccentric young man who doesn't bat an eye wearing a fore-and-aft hat out and about in Southern California (an extreme rarity, much more rare than a kilt around here, actually).

On the other tangent related to languages:
Aye, it is a great diaparity amd a cultural tragedy to see Gaelic slipping away. Thankfully some folks are refusing to allow it to die and are taking up the language. I read an article some while back about this subject. It focussed on Gaelic in Ireland. It suggested that some young people are alarmed that their own culture and indigeonous language is being lost and are learning the language in greater numbers than the previous generation. Perhaps in decades to follow it will see something of a return to the Gaelo-sphere. Ireland is a bilingual nation (obviously English and Gaelic). There are Gaelic-language programmes, stations, and publicatioms across the nation...even Gaelic soap operas (imagine that!). It is spoken by nearly 1/3 of the population (my statistic may be out-of-date on that one).

Regarding the Classical tongues (Latin and Greek), I believe that anyone pursuing a Master's degree or above MUST (as in make it compulsory) learn them. Especially those in the legal and medical fields but certainly any scientific discipline (including archaeology and paeleontology). There is something to be said for knowing the functions of a language and not just some commonly-used phrases (the legal world is known for this )!


Great thread, gents! I really dig it!