Tartan Etiquette

[Father Bill]

Not "bad form..." You're in the U.S. From comments here online, t's apparent to me that nobody there knows or cares. In the U.K. they'd possibly think you were weird & perhaps thoughtless. In Canada, folks either wouldn't know, or if they did, they'd just roll their eyes and snicker to themselves.

The question then, becomes not whether others care, but do you care about them?

Bad form? Etiquette? Consideration? Thoughtfulness? Your call; which of those is important to you?

For example, in my own case, I have clergy & hunting Sinclair. Tomorrow I'm being measured for a Sinclair modern. I'm a priest with Sinclair heritage, so I'm connected to all three. Nobody here asks much, but were I travelling to the U.K. I'd only take one lest people thought oddly of me.

Here's the thing: nobody would ever say anything but I for one care about what others think even more than what they say, after all, if they say something to me, I have a chance to explain it. When they say nothing, they leave with heaven knows what opinion of me, and yes, I do care what opinions folks have of me or if they're offended.

Do you care?

[SorenMacTavish]

Not "bad form..." You're in the U.S. From comments here online, t's apparent to me that nobody there knows or cares. In the U.K. they'd possibly think you were weird & perhaps thoughtless. In Canada, folks either wouldn't know, or if they did, they'd just roll their eyes and snicker to themselves.

The question then, becomes not whether others care, but do you care about them?

Bad form? Etiquette? Consideration? Thoughtfulness? Your call; which of those is important to you?

For example, in my own case, I have clergy & hunting Sinclair. Tomorrow I'm being measured for a Sinclair modern. I'm a priest with Sinclair heritage, so I'm connected to all three. Nobody here asks much, but were I travelling to the U.K. I'd only take one lest people thought oddly of me.

Here's the thing: nobody would ever say anything but I for one care about what others think even more than what they say, after all, if they say something to me, I have a chance to explain it. When they say nothing, they leave with heaven knows what opinion of me, and yes, I do care what opinions folks have of me or if they're offended.

Do you care?

Thank you Father Bill. I personally wouldn't wear all tartans representative of my lineage as that it would feel to me like I was playing "dress up". I would wear what pertains to me personally, which would be the MacTavish as that it is the closest clan I am descended from. I just figured I'd ask so that I had a more "community" perspective. Thanks again for your perspective Father Bill.

[MacLowlife]

McTavish,

When you speak of direct descent from multiple clans, I assume you mean that six of your great great grandfathers all came from different clans- or possibly that six of your great grandfathers and great grandmothers all came from different clans. I believe, strictly speaking, that you would wear the tartan of the clan with a direct male line- your father's father's, etc.

We have gotten pretty egalitarian in the US about matrilineal descent and that is a fine thing- after all, matrilineal descent is more easily verified than patrilineal, absent a DNA test. But clan tartans and "the right to wear them" (assuming you believe such a right exists) are inherited in the male line.

Like primogeniture, the old rules are strict, but simple. Either your father and his father and his father hail from Clan X or you don't really have a claim to that tartan. Not your grandmother, not your grandfather's mother, not the name of your dog, favorite eatery, or the play you were in back in college. As has been said above, you may wear what you like. I believe Father bill has said it nicely, as have others, here and elsewhere. You may affiliate with clan associations or ask permission of chiefs or just stare down people who question you. But if you want to follow the rule, the rule is simple. Grafting other ideas onto the rule is what complicates things.

Now there is a distinct possibility that your father's father's father is not among those six lines that you can claim. While the strict interpretation says "No Tartan for you, Mac," I believe the liberal interpretation would be to choose the tartan next closest, that is, the one with the most recent male ancestor. If you can't make that work, then go with the one that matches your eyes.

[SorenMacTavish]

McTavish,

When you speak of direct descent from multiple clans, I assume you mean that six of your great great grandfathers all came from different clans- or possibly that six of your great grandfathers and great grandmothers all came from different clans. I believe, strictly speaking, that you would wear the tartan of the clan with a direct male line- your father's father's, etc.

We have gotten pretty egalitarian in the US about matrilineal descent and that is a fine thing- after all, matrilineal descent is more easily verified than patrilineal, absent a DNA test. But clan tartans and "the right to wear them" (assuming you believe such a right exists) are inherited in the male line.

Like primogeniture, the old rules are strict, but simple. Either your father and his father and his father hail from Clan X or you don't really have a claim to that tartan. Not your grandmother, not your grandfather's mother, not the name of your dog, favorite eatery, or the play you were in back in college. As has been said above, you may wear what you like. I believe Father bill has said it nicely, as have others, here and elsewhere. You may affiliate with clan associations or ask permission of chiefs or just stare down people who question you. But if you want to follow the rule, the rule is simple. Grafting other ideas onto the rule is what complicates things.

Now there is a distinct possibility that your father's father's father is not among those six lines that you can claim. While the strict interpretation says "No Tartan for you, Mac," I believe the liberal interpretation would be to choose the tartan next closest, that is, the one with the most recent male ancestor. If you can't make that work, then go with the one that matches your eyes.

Again, thanks for the feedback MacLowlife. As to the 6 clans+, they are all traced through my father's side of the family (IE, his father and mother, their parents and their parents) I wasn't sure if the lineage for clan tartan is traced through the matrilineal or patrilineal, so many thanks to those of you who have informed me and educated me to tradition. Given my father is a Stephenson (which I believe is a clan sept of MacTavish) that is the clan tartan I "should" wear if I follow tradition. So, Stephenson or MacTavish would be proper is my understanding, however I just wanted to be sure of that fact, hence my posing the question. Thanks again for the feedback MacLowlife.

[Geoff Withnell]

Forgive an ignorant yank, but I thought, if the clan chief says you are a member of a clan, then you are, and would therefore be completely proper and correct wearing the clan tartan.


(emphasis added)

McTavish,

... Like primogeniture, the old rules are strict, but simple. Either your father and his father and his father hail from Clan X or you don't really have a claim to that tartan. Not your grandmother, not your grandfather's mother, not the name of your dog, favorite eatery, or the play you were in back in college. As has been said above, you may wear what you like. I believe Father bill has said it nicely, as have others, here and elsewhere. You may affiliate with clan associations or ask permission of chiefs or just stare down people who question you. But if you want to follow the rule, the rule is simple. Grafting other ideas onto the rule is what complicates things.

....

[MacLowlife]

Geoff, I am not innocent- sorry- and, coming from SC, "yank" has other connotations, but I appreciate your point, which is entirely correct. The point I was trying to make is that we choose tartan and justify our choices in many ways. I personally believe some of those ways are silly (as exemplified in 'the name of your dog') and of course, some of them are indisputable, as in asking permission of a chief or joining a clan. But where does that lead the uninitiated and unaffiliated? Well, it leads them back to deciding which clan to ask to join!

Clans have meant different things at different times. I know many people feel strong ties to their clans- possibly as strong as the ties of warriors of old. But in many cases, those strongly linked clan members have relatives who think they are nuts. Because they spend so much energy on something that means nothing at all to the similarly- connected relatives.

This thread has been a good place to talk about affiliation, both inherited and voluntary. A couple of good examples have come up of the commercialism of what we might call Tartan Loyalty and also its romantic, heartfelt aspects. We are doomed to bounce back and forth, between heritage and modernity, between being exploited and following our hearts, between tradition and the freedom of the New World. And now and then, we are handed a good story, not necessarily true, but a good story. Synthesizing all of that is sometimes difficult- it is often easier to choose a side and ignore those who disagree. But I think the whole picture is valuable and useful.

[Geoff Withnell]

By ignorant Yank, I meant myself

Geoff, I am not innocent- sorry- and, coming from SC, "yank" has other connotations, but I appreciate your point, which is entirely correct. The point I was trying to make is that we choose tartan and justify our choices in many ways. I personally believe some of those ways are silly (as exemplified in 'the name of your dog') and of course, some of them are indisputable, as in asking permission of a chief or joining a clan. But where does that lead the uninitiated and unaffiliated? Well, it leads them back to deciding which clan to ask to join!

Clans have meant different things at different times. I know many people feel strong ties to their clans- possibly as strong as the ties of warriors of old. But in many cases, those strongly linked clan members have relatives who think they are nuts. Because they spend so much energy on something that means nothing at all to the similarly- connected relatives.

This thread has been a good place to talk about affiliation, both inherited and voluntary. A couple of good examples have come up of the commercialism of what we might call Tartan Loyalty and also its romantic, heartfelt aspects. We are doomed to bounce back and forth, between heritage and modernity, between being exploited and following our hearts, between tradition and the freedom of the New World. And now and then, we are handed a good story, not necessarily true, but a good story. Synthesizing all of that is sometimes difficult- it is often easier to choose a side and ignore those who disagree. But I think the whole picture is valuable and useful.

[David Thorpe]

...But where does that lead the uninitiated and unaffiliated? Well, it leads them back to deciding which clan to ask to join!...

Not necessarily. Seeking to join a clan solely because one likes and wants to wear the clan's tartan is rather cart-before-the-horse and trite, IMHO.
There are many beautiful non-clan-related tartans in virtually every hue from which one may choose without the slightest possibility of offence or question, without trivializing clan affiliation.

[PiperChick]

In regards to wearing a kilt from mother's or father's side, in the case of a female, is it safe to assume that when a woman gets married, she assumes the tartan of her new spouse (I always assumed so)? Would she still generally wear her "maiden" tartan interchangeably, or no? Would it matter in today's society, where women sometimes either keep their maiden name or hyphenate them?

[Jock Scot]

Good question. My wife wears "my" tartan to the exclusion of all others and I would say that is a traditional way of thinking in this part of the world. Interestingly, I cannot ever recall discussing it with her, it is something that just happens!