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11th November 13, 08:19 AM
#1
About the Kilt Pin...
To me it looks like the very bottom of the scabbard for his dirk, not a kilt pin. I could be wrong.
Beautiful painting though and great attention to detail. What oft times gets distorted is the tartan pattern itself which is difficult to reproduce accurately in painting... he did a masterful job.
Last edited by RockyR; 11th November 13 at 08:21 AM.
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12th November 13, 12:06 AM
#2
Richard , great pic and a beautiful painting . I am very familiar with it , as you might imagine .
Evidently , the Montgomery Clan fell out of favor in the LA County Museum and got moved from the main building . 
Mike Montgomery
Clan Montgomery Society , International
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12th November 13, 05:04 AM
#3
 Originally Posted by RockyR
About the Kilt Pin...
To me it looks like the very bottom of the scabbard for his dirk, not a kilt pin. I could be wrong.
Wow that's interesting! I spent nearly an hour with my face a few inches from this huge painting and that thing for sure looked like a kilt pin, even the shape is clear, a shape you see in classic kilt pins from time to time (thistle shape on top) but now that you mention it, at least in the image I posted, it DOES look like the bottom of the dirk scabbard!
I suppose I'll have to go back for another look, with that in mind!
Last edited by OC Richard; 12th November 13 at 05:13 AM.
Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte
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12th November 13, 05:42 AM
#4
Last edited by SFCRick; 12th November 13 at 05:41 PM.
Omnibus rebus impossibilibus remotis, quidquid relictum sit,
quamvis, debet esse veritas.
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12th November 13, 06:53 AM
#5
OCR... I think that could possibly be the epitome of "can't see the forest for the trees".  Still a beautiful work of art, worth a second look.
Last edited by RockyR; 12th November 13 at 06:54 AM.
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12th November 13, 01:57 PM
#6
Originally Posted by RockyR
About the Kilt Pin...
To me it looks like the very bottom of the scabbard for his dirk, not a kilt pin. I could be wrong.
Beautiful painting though and great attention to detail. What oft times gets distorted is the tartan pattern itself which is difficult to reproduce accurately in painting... he did a masterful job.
That is what I always thought. I too have always admired this painting for many reasons from an artist's point of view, but also for the reasons you point out, Richard.
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12th November 13, 05:38 PM
#7
The picture on the book is different than the painting. Look at the sword, they are pointing in different directions. I too think that the pin is actually the bottom of the dirk. Just my 2 pence.
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12th November 13, 06:44 PM
#8
John Singleton Copley is the artist. Anyway the backgrounds are different. And I believe that the piece in Scotland is much smaller, so maybe a study for the version is LA? Or Maybe it goes the other way around. Many of you may be more familiar with JSC's portrait of Paul Revere. But we've all seen his work before.
I've no opinion on the pin or dirk puzzle.
Great piece of art thanks for sharing it with us.
Connaughton
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13th November 13, 06:27 AM
#9
Originally Posted by Madadh
The picture on the book is different than the painting. Look at the sword, they are pointing in different directions. I too think that the pin is actually the bottom of the dirk. Just my 2 pence.
Yes the inferior artist who did the copy changed the sword-arm, and made several small changes in the background.
It's my understanding that a member of the aristocracy would commission a top portrait painter, then commission a 2nd artist, an artist who specialised in copying, to create one or more copies, so that they could have paintings to hang in their various residences. In other words the copy might well be nearly contemporaneous with the original, might have been painted in the subject's own lifetime.
Curious to me that the unsigned undated copy by an unknown artist is owned by the National Museums Scotland and appears in countless books about Highland Dress, while the signed dated original hangs in relative obscurity in Los Angeles.
Last edited by OC Richard; 13th November 13 at 06:35 AM.
Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte
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