What are we allowed to post in this section?

[Terry1948]

As a relative newbie to XMarks, with a wide interest in various ways of wearing the kilt, I would like to comment on this thread.

There is a lot of crossover, so let's take a thread about jackets (as an example) that has been placed by the OP only in the Traditional subforum, but would actually apply to both Contemporary and Traditional (and let's not get into how those terms are defined!). There could be members who would miss it because they view themselves as being Contemporary and not Traditional, so don't look in that subforum. However, they would look in the Accessories Forum, and would see comments from those who pattern themselves in a Traditional ambience, and those who feel they are wearing the kilt in a Contemporary manner. That might lead them to explore the Traditional subforum more. The reverse would also be true for Traditionalists.

I think it behooves folks to use the search function (even with its limitations -- this is not Google, after all, and tag the threads). Part of the enjoyment of XMarks is finding new perspectives on the kilt and how to wear it. I have seen examples of personal styles that I really appreciated, and others that I felt worked for that person, but not for me. But it has been an opportunity to learn.

With all the crossover on topics, I don't envy the Moderators in trying to keep the forum readable. XMarks is populated by people from all over the world with different perspectives. The goal is to make the forum usable for all these people, not just a subset. So, sometimes where an OP posts a thread may not be where the Moderators think it should go for the access of the entire forum, and they move it. I am assuming that the OP gets some form of notification that the thread has been moved.... For someone who has been following the thread, wouldn't any new posts show up in New Posts, and from there it would be obvious that the thread has been moved? The reader who wants to follow the thread would then know to look there.

[artificer]

As a relative newbie to XMarks, with a wide interest in various ways of wearing the kilt, I would like to comment on this thread.

There is a lot of crossover, so let's take a thread about jackets (as an example) that has been placed by the OP only in the Traditional subforum, but would actually apply to both Contemporary and Traditional (and let's not get into how those terms are defined!). There could be members who would miss it because they view themselves as being Contemporary and not Traditional, so don't look in that subforum. However, they would look in the Accessories Forum, and would see comments from those who pattern themselves in a Traditional ambience, and those who feel they are wearing the kilt in a Contemporary manner. That might lead them to explore the Traditional subforum more. The reverse would also be true for Traditionalists.

I think it behooves folks to use the search function (even with its limitations -- this is not Google, after all, and tag the threads). Part of the enjoyment of XMarks is finding new perspectives on the kilt and how to wear it. I have seen examples of personal styles that I really appreciated, and others that I felt worked for that person, but not for me. But it has been an opportunity to learn.

With all the crossover on topics, I don't envy the Moderators in trying to keep the forum readable. XMarks is populated by people from all over the world with different perspectives. The goal is to make the forum usable for all these people, not just a subset. So, sometimes where an OP posts a thread may not be where the Moderators think it should go for the access of the entire forum, and they move it. I am assuming that the OP gets some form of notification that the thread has been moved.... For someone who has been following the thread, wouldn't any new posts show up in New Posts, and from there it would be obvious that the thread has been moved? The reader who wants to follow the thread would then know to look there.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. People can explore whichever sub-forum they like, but each sub-forum serves a particular purpose.

The Traditional subforum exists for those who wish to discuss the finer points of how the kilt is worn in a traditional sense. (Following the 'Rules' as it were).
Some contemporary dressers find the discussion excruciating and knit-picking.

The Contemporary subforum exists for those who may wish to wear the kilt in a more 'modern' sense. Alternate jacket styles, scrunched down hose, unusual sporrans, etc.
Traditional dressers may find some of this... troubling .

To strip the traditional forum of everything BUT the kilt itself essentially destroys the subforum, as a kilt worn traditionally frequently DOES have a jacket (or jumper). Why take the discussion of
traditional jackets worn WITH traditional kilts OUT of the Traditional Sub-forum?

Just my $0.02, but I find the recent 'pruning' of the traditional forum has sucked much of the life and discussion out of XMarks, at least the parts I quite enjoyed.

ith:

[Tobus]

For someone who has been following the thread, wouldn't any new posts show up in New Posts, and from there it would be obvious that the thread has been moved? The reader who wants to follow the thread would then know to look there.

I'm assuming you're talking about the "what's new" tab. I don't use it. It makes me wade through a bunch of topics that I don't care about, which is precisely why I like to browse directly to the subforum that interests me in order to find topics I do care about. And for this reason, I am very grateful for the staff attempting to keep topics fairly well organised in the sub-forums to which they should belong. The only issue here is that there is some confusion on what exactly the traditional forum is supposed to be about, if topics about traditional kilt wear keep getting moved to other subforums.

To be fair, they usually do leave a marker to show that a thread has been moved, and it's easy to click on that link to follow it to the thread's new location.

[Terry1948]

I'm going to have to disagree with this. People can explore whichever sub-forum they like, but each sub-forum serves a particular purpose.

The Traditional subforum exists for those who wish to discuss the finer points of how the kilt is worn in a traditional sense. (Following the 'Rules' as it were).
Some contemporary dressers find the discussion excruciating and knit-picking.

The Contemporary subforum exists for those who may wish to wear the kilt in a more 'modern' sense. Alternate jacket styles, scrunched down hose, unusual sporrans, etc.
Traditional dressers may find some of this... troubling .

To strip the traditional forum of everything BUT the kilt itself essentially destroys the subforum, as a kilt worn traditionally frequently DOES have a jacket (or jumper). Why take the discussion of
traditional jackets worn WITH traditional kilts OUT of the Traditional Sub-forum?

Just my $0.02, but I find the recent 'pruning' of the traditional forum has sucked much of the life and discussion out of XMarks, at least the parts I quite enjoyed.

ith:

So, I admit to being a bit bemused. Why does it "suck the life and discussion out" by having to read about something in a subforum not dedicated to one specific perspective? I actually find going into different subforums adds to the life and discussion, but then I am also interested in seeing how different people view the wearing of the kilt.

[artificer]

So, I admit to being a bit bemused. Why does it "suck the life and discussion out" by having to read about something in a subforum not dedicated to one specific perspective? I actually find going into different subforums adds to the life and discussion, but then I am also interested in seeing how different people view the wearing of the kilt.

It's not just about WHERE the conversation is read, although this pruning HAS vastly cut down the volume of threads as well as the traffic IN threads that I am interested in- "sucked the life and discussion out". Literally.
The traffic in the Traditional forum is at an all time low.

To be perfectly frank, if I want to discuss how a tweed jacket works with a particular outfit I don't need to hear "Wear what you want, there are no rules" eighteen times in a thread (a fairly Contemporary PoV).
I'd much rather hear from those who share a particular mindset, as those would be the opinions that I was looking for (Traditional ones).

Likewise, If I was discussing the finer points of rough and ready boots and hose for a concert I wouldn't be asking the question in the Traditional forum (where such a question might mostly net answers of "I'd never do that").

THAT is why I appreciate the ability to discuss various facets of kilting in their proper sub-forums. It's not about NOT getting different perspectives,
it's about asking the proper question in the proper place to get the proper answer from the proper people.

A jumble of opinions is what the "General" forums are for, and they do marvelously at it, but certain questions and topics belong in DEDICATED spaces.

ith:

Edit: I should add that I am not an "Arch-Traditionalist", the weather here means that most of the time I'm wearing a Polo shirt and light or scrunched down hose with my kilt, and I've been known to wear a t-shirt with it as well.
I just appreciate being able to access set groups with their own particular points of view.

[Tobus]

To be perfectly frank, if I want to discuss how a tweed jacket works with a particular outfit I don't need to hear "Wear what you want, there are no rules" eighteen times in a thread (a fairly Contemporary PoV).
I'd much rather hear from those who share a particular mindset, as those would be the opinions that I was looking for (Traditional ones).

Likewise, If I was discussing the finer points of rough and ready boots and hose for a concert I wouldn't be asking the question in the Traditional forum (where such a question might mostly net answers of "I'd never do that").

This. Exactly.

Posting a question about a tweed jacket is a great example. If one were to post it in the traditional subforum, he would be looking for input based on a traditional point of view. If he posted it in the accessories subforum, he would be looking for a more general opinion. Two very different intents, with the exact same question asked. The issue of where the question is asked is the important thing. But if all such questions are moved to the accessories forum, it defeats the poster's intent.

[pbutts]

Nathan, are you asking for clarification on WHY posts are moved or are you advocating that the original poster's choice of forum be respected?

In the examples cited, is the move to another section the result of subsequent comments that hijack the original intent?

Personally I automatically hit the "NEW POSTS" button and skim through posts irrespective of forum to see what interests me. I only use the forum view when I'm shopping a particular vendor or looking for DIY help.

It might be helpful to do a survey on --

1) how many members go directly to the "Traditionally Made" forum?

2) how many members browse by "New Posts"?

Also, do a review the posts that were moved to see what topics appear to be problematic.

...this might give the moderators some data to ensure that whatever solution is considered actually meets the needs of members.

[Nathan]

Nathan, are you asking for clarification on WHY posts are moved or are you advocating that the original poster's choice of forum be respected?

In the examples cited, is the move to another section the result of subsequent comments that hijack the original intent?

Personally I automatically hit the "NEW POSTS" button and skim through posts irrespective of forum to see what interests me. I only use the forum view when I'm shopping a particular vendor or looking for DIY help.

It might be helpful to do a survey on --

1) how many members go directly to the "Traditionally Made" forum?

2) how many members browse by "New Posts"?

Also, do a review the posts that were moved to see what topics appear to be problematic.

...this might give the moderators some data to ensure that whatever solution is considered actually meets the needs of members.

Interesting questions but really don't address my OP. Obviously there are subforums so different people can discuss what they want among likeminded people.

What IS ok for this sub-forum? What DOES actually belong here in terms of new content? What determines whether you are wearing the kilt traditionally if not the things you wear it with?

[davidlpope]

My suggestion for the new sub-forums, based on the work done by Nathan and Colin:

Historical: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt from a bygone era—whether accurate, theatrical, or anachronistic.

Traditional: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt as Scottish Highland attire that has been passed down from generation to generation.

Contemporary: This section is for discussing approaches to wearing the kilt as everyday clothing and/or street wear that privileges personal interpretation.

[Semiomniscient]

This makes sense and is in no way divisive as some would seem to put it. Additionally, it is descriptive for newer members who want to focus on one aspect or another--whether they're interested in wearing a kilt to a Highland Games or reenactment or a concert.