History and proper use of the kilt ribbon question

[OC Richard]

Any civilian could put them on his kilt. No rules about them in civilian dress. They show up in many 19th and 20th century images of civilians.

In the five post-1809 kilted Highland regiments only the 42nd and 93rd wore them. They were worn by sergeants and officers, including pipers who were sergeants and above; in other words there was no special usage by pipers. On the Black Watch/Government/Sutherland tartan of the 42nd and 93rd the ribbons were grass-green, the same colour as the binding around the top of all military kilts. On the Royal Stewart kilts of the Black Watch pipers (the Pipe Sergeant and Pipe Major) they were matching Royal Stewart tartan (the binding remaining grass-green).

The earliest image I have to hand of the 42nd wearing them is a contemporary print from 1833, of the 93rd, 1834.

As far as non-kilted regiments go, the pipers were the only ones kilted anyhow, and in some regiments all the pipers wore them regardless of rank. In other words they seemed to be regarded as part of the kilt, one could say.

I use ordinary dictionary usage when speaking of them, calling the things made like a bow and shaped like a bow a "bow" and the things made like a rosette and shaped like a rosette a "rosette". In this, I fly in the face of the sometimes quirky military terms.

Now of those five post-1809 kilted regiments only the 92nd wore kilt pins.

The pipers of the Scots Guards wear both kilt pins and rosettes, all of them regardless of rank



Pipers of the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, just kilt pins for all



Here's an interesting vintage kilt, most probably civilian, with a vaguely Argyll-ish thing going on



You see rosettes like these on old civilian kilts fairly often



About the history, here are early ones that seem to actually be tying the kilt together

[Bruce Scott]

About the history, here are early ones that seem to actually be tying the kilt together

And another with ribbons being used for that purpose:

[blackwatch70]

Now of those five post-1809 kilted regiments only the 92nd wore kilt pins.

I remember, kilt pins also have been worn by pipers and officers of Seafroth Highlanders in 20c (they was little smaller than Gordon's pattern) and ORs of 2nd and some other battalions of the Black Watch some time after 1881 amalgamation until WWI.

[OC Richard]

I remember, kilt pins also have been worn by pipers and officers of Seafroth Highlanders

Yes I was only discussing the regular regiments of the British army.

I wasn't considering Dominions units, or Territorial and Volunteer units in Britain.

Both had an amazing and sometimes bizarre variety of uniform.

I believe that photo is the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada, with their famously bearded Pipe Major, often seen on WWII newsreels.

[blackwatch70]

Dear OCR,

yes, you're correct, it's a photo of pipers Seaforth Highlanders of Canada, but believe me, officers of regular UK Seaforth also wore kilt pins. One of these silver pins I have in my collection.

[OC Richard]

Cool! Didn't know that. I thought it was a Canadian thing.

[Jon Lilley]

Hi, Okiwen!

Sorry to find this so late and sorry it's so little info, but the only thing I can add is that the Pipe Major wears two ribbons or rosettes and the rest of the band just wears one. They can be compound or single and it's all the choice of the regiment/band/group. I'll teach you how to make the rosette at our next kilt kamp if you're interested. I'd do a video if I had someone to hold the camera while I taught. It's kind of hard to do both at the same time.

Hope all's going well there. We really did miss you despite all the hoo-haa going on. Hope you're Holidays are going well!

Jon

[okiwen]

Hi, Okiwen!

Sorry to find this so late and sorry it's so little info, but the only thing I can add is that the Pipe Major wears two ribbons or rosettes and the rest of the band just wears one. They can be compound or single and it's all the choice of the regiment/band/group. I'll teach you how to make the rosette at our next kilt kamp if you're interested. I'd do a video if I had someone to hold the camera while I taught. It's kind of hard to do both at the same time.

Hope all's going well there. We really did miss you despite all the hoo-haa going on. Hope you're Holidays are going well!

Jon

I'll take your lesson...and all the knowledge you can find. My every intention is to be a Kamp this year. (soooo excited all over)