Level(s) of formality

[Steve Ashton]

Hi Bill,

You asked for opinions in the "Old School" vein. Well, I think I qualify as Old and I was raised in an age when things like White Tie and Tails were still worn.

Today White Tie and Tails is reserved for the most formal events. State dinners, The Vienna Opera Opening Night and the Nobel Prize Awards ceremony and banquet that follows.
Other than State dinners at national capitals there are almost no true White Tie and Tails events in N. America. Even opening nights at Carnegie are now Black Tie.

To me White Tie and Tails is a uniform. Please note that I will always call this mode of dress by its proper and full name "White Tie and Tails". If an invitation says just "White Tie", it would an indication that the person hosting the event does not know what it means and I would dress in Tuxedo.

One year I happen to have been in Stockholm on the night of an Nobel Prize Awards ceremony. I went to stand on the sidewalk and oogle the swells.
One gentleman showed up in Black Tie, Full tuxedo with a white bow tie, top hat, gloves and white scarf. He was stopped at the door and politely directed down the street to one of the hire companies that stay open late for just such an eventuality. He was directed to procure the proper mode of dress and return. At which time his invitation which specified "White Tie and Tails" would be honored.

National and Clerical dress are accepted but only if you are representing the country or the church on an official capacity.

So I would never wear a kilt to an event that specified White Tie and Tails on the invitation. I would not be attending as a representative of Scotland so to my eye would not be proper.
In fact I do not believe that there is a Kilt equivalent to White Tie and Tails for 99% of us. There is National Dress which could be worn to a White Tie and Tails event if representing Scotland in an official capacity.

To me it is not what can I wear, but what should I wear.
Out of respect I would wear the required uniform.

White Marcella stiff fronted shirt with separate wing color, studs with matching cufflinks.
White, hand-tied, silk bow tie.
White low-cut waistcoat with pearl buttons.
Black, high waisted, swallow tail trousers without cuffs and two rows of black silk braid down the leg, held up with braces.
Black cut away tail coat with black silk facings.
If I were going outside at all or going inside from a car I would carry a black silk top hat, Black, Kid or dove gloves and white silk scarf.
Dress pumps in patent leather or polished to a patent gloss. The ones with the sole that is paper thin.
Black dress hose.
No wrist watch.



In regards to a sporran for formal events. I personally view full face sporrans like I do Hunter style sporrans.
One notch below formal sporrans.

[Father Bill]

Absolutely correct Steve, but the regulations I’m following belong to the Grand Lodge of Canada in the Province of Ontario and the Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry in Canada as is usual in Ontario application... which permits the kilt as an alternative, and to which I’ve worn it in the past.

[ThistleDown]

Absolutely correct Steve, but the regulations I’m following belong to the Grand Lodge of Canada in the Province of Ontario and the Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry in Canada as is usual in Ontario application... which permits the kilt as an alternative, and to which I’ve worn it in the past.

In agreement, FB. You were asking about 'old school' traditional and I assumed you were referring to Highland dress. I can't disagree with Steve on any of what he says as a transport from so-called Saxon to Highland, or with his experience, but 'old school' (in my experience and schooling) tells me that 'white tie' is exactly what you will be wearing and that you were only inquiring about the full-face sporran accompaniment. I still love your rodent, even though it is not "old school".

[Liam]

Hi Bill,

You asked for opinions in the "Old School" vein. Well, I think I qualify as Old and I was raised in an age when things like White Tie and Tails were still worn.

Today White Tie and Tails is reserved for the most formal events. State dinners, The Vienna Opera Opening Night and the Nobel Prize Awards ceremony and banquet that follows.
Other than State dinners at national capitals there are almost no true White Tie and Tails events in N. America. Even opening nights at Carnegie are now Black Tie.

To me White Tie and Tails is a uniform. Please note that I will always call this mode of dress by its proper and full name "White Tie and Tails". If an invitation says just "White Tie", it would an indication that the person hosting the event does not know what it means and I would dress in Tuxedo.

One year I happen to have been in Stockholm on the night of an Nobel Prize Awards ceremony. I went to stand on the sidewalk and oogle the swells.
One gentleman showed up in Black Tie, Full tuxedo with a white bow tie, top hat, gloves and white scarf. He was stopped at the door and politely directed down the street to one of the hire companies that stay open late for just such an eventuality. He was directed to procure the proper mode of dress and return. At which time his invitation which specified "White Tie and Tails" would be honored.

National and Clerical dress are accepted but only if you are representing the country or the church on an official capacity.

So I would never wear a kilt to an event that specified White Tie and Tails on the invitation. I would not be attending as a representative of Scotland so to my eye would not be proper.
In fact I do not believe that there is a Kilt equivalent to White Tie and Tails for 99% of us. There is National Dress which could be worn to a White Tie and Tails event if representing Scotland in an official capacity.

To me it is not what can I wear, but what should I wear.
Out of respect I would wear the required uniform.

White Marcella stiff fronted shirt with separate wing color, studs with matching cufflinks.
White, hand-tied, silk bow tie.
White low-cut waistcoat with pearl buttons.
Black, high waisted, swallow tail trousers without cuffs and two rows of black silk braid down the leg, held up with braces.
Black cut away tail coat with black silk facings.
If I were going outside at all or going inside from a car I would carry a black silk top hat, Black, Kid or dove gloves and white silk scarf.
Dress pumps in patent leather or polished to a patent gloss. The ones with the sole that is paper thin.
Black dress hose.
No wrist watch.



In regards to a sporran for formal events. I personally view full face sporrans like I do Hunter style sporrans.
One notch below formal sporrans.

Is this Jock Ashton speaking? 😉