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16th July 18, 05:00 AM
#10
 Originally Posted by Tobus
The detail in the metalwork is amazing. But that eagle doesn't look American to me at all. It reminds me more of what you'd see in Germany or Austria, although it's a similar motif all over Europe.
It would be a huge risk to pay this much for it without seeing the hallmark. But given that laws in the UK are much more strict about using the word "silver", I'm going to assume that it is provably sterling silver, and that one just needs to ask the seller for the proof.
If I were able to afford really nice collectible sporrans, this one would be hot on my list!
This is NOT a US Eagle, for several reasons. First the US Eagle is most of all Federal applications is displayed with the US Shield, which is the Treasury Shield. Also the US Eagle on military and other Federal applications is displayed with stars above the head with beams of light. The neck of the eagle on the sporran is more German or Austrian. The belt buckle displayed was a pattern form 1852 that was used through 1900. It came in two patterns, one for Non-Commissioned Officers and one for Officers, the Officer had a Silver wreath below the buckle. This was buckle was used mainly in the US Civil War through the Indian War and was gradually retired before the WWI. Another reason, Congress passed measure the motto "E Pluribus Unum" "From many one", to be used with Eagle either as banner or stream ribbon. Also the direction of the head, most times the direction facing left is associated with military, and right would be civilian department, but this does not hold true all the time, just works out that way. When US Coast Guard was part of the Treasury before WWII, the crows faced to the right or toward the front, in the US Navy crows faced to the back or left, I am talking about the Petty Officer crows worn on uniforms. Also the US Eagle is always depicted with talon grasping arrows (war) on left and talon grasping olive branches (peace) on right. However, you will see examples of the arrows and olive branches reversed, no reason, just the way it was approved.
By 1852 the Colonial Eagle that was on the wood carving, that was used mainly by the US Navy with the longer neck was replaced by the Navy on or about 1849. The Federal Eagle came is several configurations, but MOST had the US Shield as previous stated.
After examining the Ebay Sporan cantle, this is NOT a US Eagle. Similar but no cigar on this one.
Here are some examples of the US Eagle during varies stages of U.S. History
Civil War..

Here is example of very early eagle button for a militia uniform, no shield but stars, and if you look on the talon, grasping US Flag. Very rare button.

Presidential Seal on or about late 1800's around 1890:

Revolutionary War and post, up to War of 1812:

US Army WWI to now:

Example of US Eagle with no shield, used on US Army Breast Plats for Cartridge Box, between 1849 through Civil War.
Finally, the US Navy and Marine Corp around 1915 changed its logos and did not use shields, because the US Coast Guard was formed with the US Lighthouse Service, US Lifesaving Service, Revenue Marines (cutter service) and few other groups to form the present US Coast Guard, and they used the US Shield on their logo. Now this does not mean you will not see the US Shield on the Eagle with some Navy and Marine Eagle logos, but the Official Navy and Marine logos use the Anchor.
Here is PRE 19th Century NAVY

POST:
OFFICIAL US NAVY CREST

US Coast Guard, Official Crest, no Eagle, but shield

US Coast Guard Official FLAG uses the Eagle and Crest

US NAVY WITH SHIELD

US Marines:

So, what you notice is form the most part the image of the US Eagle is much different, especially in the neck of the Eagle. Took the time to do this, even though its a little overkill, to show our friends on the other side of the pond the US Eagle and its evolution from Revolutionary to now. Hope you enjoy, there is NO HARD FAST RULES, but the American Eagle is much different than the European cousins. CHEERS.
Last edited by CollinMacD; 16th July 18 at 05:38 AM.
Allan Collin MacDonald III
Grandfather - Clan Donald, MacDonald (Clanranald) /MacBride, Antigonish, NS, 1791
Grandmother - Clan Chisholm of Strathglass, West River, Antigonish, 1803
Scottish Roots: Knoidart, Inverness, Scotland, then to Antigonish, Nova Scotia, Canada.
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