Can We?

[Iolaus]

Traditional kilts obviously have a solid celtic foundation. They will surely endure beyond our days. But there are many non-celt folks that will stay away from them because of their ethnicity. They see kilts in the same terms as you and I might view the fustinella. In short, the ethnicity associated with kilts (its importance to you and I notwithstanding) is baggage.

That's where the non-tartan contemporary kilts come into play. They don't pack quite as much "baggage", and may be more palatable to the general public.

[macwilkin]

Traditional kilts obviously have a solid celtic foundation. They will surely endure beyond our days. But there are many non-celt folks that will stay away from them because of their ethnicity. They see kilts in the same terms as you and I might view the fustinella. In short, the ethnicity associated with kilts (its importance to you and I notwithstanding) is baggage.

I respectfully have to disagree with you, Blu. I meet a lot of people with different ethnic backgrounds who like to see those of us with Celtic heritage wearing our kilts and attire, and displaying pride in where we came from -- and some have even expressed envy that their ethnic background doesn't have such a versitle use as daily wear and not just in a formal or ceremonial setting. I was very active in Model United Nations & World Affairs Council in university, and we had quite a few international students who loved it when I wore my kilt to events -- they were glad to see an American who was aware of other cultures & customs, and I think wearing a traditional kilt & being aware of our own traditions makes us more open to others' traditions.

Our heritage is never "baggage" -- some may not feel comfortable at first, but as a sennachie, a traditional Scottish storyteller, I talk a lot about the kilt and symbolism, as well as the openess of the Scots to others wearing the kilt -- and people respond to that.

That's where the non-tartan contemporary kilts come into play. They don't pack quite as much "baggage", and may be more palatable to the general public.

Again, quite the contrary -- the general public, for the most part, can at least recognize traditional tartan kilts from pipe bands, movies, etc. -- yes, they have incorrect assumptions, but that's wear education comes in -- "know your tartan!" -- for that matter, know the kilt, it's customs & traditions, and be able to discuss it -- you don't need to be a scholar, just be able to converse & answer a few questions.

Now, don't get me wrong -- I have no problems with the modern-style kilts, although I will probably never own one, but they do have their own roots in the traditional kilt as well, and that should be recognised.

I hope no one is offended by my passionate defence of my heritage -- no offence was intended, but "the kilt is my delight", to paraphrase the song! :mrgreen:

Cuimhnich air na daoine bho ʼn d' thainig thu
-- Remember those you come from!

Cheers,

Todd

[mikemisfit]

on friday i went to a new irish pub that opened and noticed that the female employees were wearing some kind of kilt (actually plaid pleated skirts) and the males were wearing black pants. so i went and asked the manager why (lol) and passed out a whack of Freedom Kilts business cards! i will set those guys straight yet! lol

-mike misfit

ps: steve if u read this i need more business cards

[Scotus]

Blu, you are wrong about the ethnic tie being baggage. For many of us, the kilt is tied primarily to our heritage; i.e., Scottish. While recognizing that descendants of other celtic cultures might wear the kilt, Scotland is the origin of the modern use of the kilt. Far from being baggage, the Scottish connection is what has given life to the kilt in our day and age.

[Blu (Ontario)]

... I respectfully have to disagree with you, Blu... Todd

Todd... As you probably know, I too am a traditionalist. The Scot / Brit blood that runs though my veins is strong. The ancestral voices whisper to me also from across the ages. My remarks were not intended to cast a shadow on the scottish roots of the kilt or any other garment. It's more of an observation of how other people see it and how its ethnicity may be "problematic". People I talk to see the kilt as a Scottish garment to be worn by Scots. I think my use of the term "baggage" was a bit misleading.... "a negative influence " would have been a better choice of words. The questions I get asked most often, after "what's underneath, is "Are you from Scotland?" and "Are you in a pipe band?" and "Then why are you wearing a kilt? Standard questions from what I read on the forums.

Regardless of how differently I and the members of this board may feel about it, 99% of the rest of the world sees the kilt as an ethnic Scottish costume. We, the members of Xmarks, know it to be much more, and whenever the opportunity arises will gladly enlighten folks.

.... and some have even expressed envy that their ethnic background doesn't have such a versatile use as daily wear and not just in a formal or ceremonial setting....

Prior to the truth of it being explained to them, were they comfortable to add a kilt to their wardrobe? How about afterward?

... Our heritage is never "baggage"...

OK... but I suggest that it is a "deterrent" ,in the minds of a lot of people, to going out and spending money on a kilt and wearing it to go grocery shopping. As long as the public in general do not understand that a kilt can be much much more than a "national costume", it will remain the clothing choice of pipe bands and (as others see us) eccentrics. I believe it will take a very long time (if ever) for kilts to rise out of realm of the niche market.

I don't mean to raise any hackles but I think the observation is valid.

[Blu (Ontario)]

Blu, you are wrong about the ethnic tie being baggage...

I'm not wrong Scotus... I merely suggest that non-Scot / non-celtic people do not feel comfortable wearing a garment viewed as the national dress of Scotland. I didn't for a very long time and I have the ancestry.

... While recognizing that descendants of other celtic cultures might wear the kilt, Scotland is the origin of the modern use of the kilt. Far from being baggage, the Scottish connection is what has given life to the kilt in our day and age.

True enough for the likes of us... but I wouldn't feel comfortable going out dressed in a Kuwaiti dishdash with matching gutras!... would you?

The point is that when we don a kilt and go out to work, dinner, shopping, church, etc. people will see us dressed in a Scottish costume. Unless the truth is explained to them, very few will be inclined to follow our example. Even fewer will follow through.

[Rigged]

I've posted before that the kiltmakers themselves have a role to play in how kilts are perceived by the public.

I suggested a flyer be added to the packaging of each kilt sold, explaining that the kilt is to be worn as an everyday garment. It could also include some brief instructions on ettiquette (like swooping kilt underneath when sitting down), and links to websites and forums like this one.

[macwilkin]

think my use of the term "baggage" was a bit misleading.... "a negative influence " would have been a better choice of words. The questions I get asked most often, after "what's underneath, is "Are you from Scotland?" and "Are you in a pipe band?" and "Then why are you wearing a kilt? Standard questions from what I read on the forums.

Blu,

Please don't misunderstand me; I certainly can see where your coming from to a degree. I would phrase it, as I did in my previous post, as a "misconception" even more than "a negative influence". Misconceptions are easily remedied through education and an open mind on the part of the person with said misconception -- and sometimes, it just isn't possible.

When I speak to "non-kilted" folks about Highland attire, I do not attempt to "recruit" them to wear it, anymore than I do with my Cuban Guayabera shirts, which are considered "traditional" dress of Cuban and the Yucatan of Mexico -- whilst the Guayabera has entered the "mainstream" American culture as a "fad" fashion, I wear it because it is comfortable (which a lot of folks here say the same thing about kilts), and I have never had anyone ask me if I was of Cuban heritage after they ask me what type of shirt I am wearing. I have a long-standing interest in Latin American history, and I love the Guayabera -- mostly from reading far too much Hemingway! :mrgreen:

Granted, we don't have a large Cuban emigre population in SW Missouri, but our Hispanic population is growing, so much so that local towns are having authentic Cinco de Mayo celebrations. Incidently, most of my Latino friends are very positive of my kilt-wearing, and one of them (my friend from Colombia) was interested in kilts before he met me.

If I plant the seed in someone, regardless of their heritage, to wear the kilt, then that's great -- but that is not my "mission" in wearing my kilt -- it is to honour my Scottish ancestors & to educate folks about the contributions Scots have made to the US, Canada, and all over the world. That is my job as a history teacher, librarian and park ranger, and the same with my involvement with Scottish societies, etc.

Whilst the kilt as a garment is evolving, the fact is that its roots are traditional Highland attire, and as a historian, I believe that the history, customs and traditions should be respected & remembered by modern kilt-wearers. I'm not saying this about you or anyone on this board, just my personal opinion.

Once again, no disrespect & offence intended. I certainly respect your views, and I always believe that folks can "agree to disagree without being disagreeable."

Cheers,

Todd

[Alan H]

Well, I wore my new Philabeg to the Mrs' orchestra concert today and got tons of positive comments. Many were how good it looked but almost without fail there was a "Scottish" component to the questions. ALL of the comments were from women. The guys looked and either said nothing or put up with their women looking. No MEN said "where can I get one of those?" though three women said "I want my husband to get a kilt!".

There's a big difference between "That looks good"...and "I want one".

[Thistle Stop]

I suggested a flyer be added to the packaging of each kilt sold, explaining that the kilt is to be worn as an everyday garment. It could also include some brief instructions on ettiquette (like swooping kilt underneath when sitting down), and links to websites and forums like this one.

Good idea!