A Mason???

[Mike1]

This one has been hashed out before and as cajunscot has mentioned, we don't need it to tumble into the bin because of misinformation.

Matt, you are certainly an authority on kilts and tartan, but your comment

I just wanted to clarify that Freemasonry is not particularly Scottish. It actually had its origin in England.

is only part correct.

People associate the beginnings of Freemasonry with the formation of the Grand Lodge of England, 24 June 1717. A Mason can tell you that this merely marked the beginning of what is known as the Modern Era of Freemasonry, as we know Freemasonry is much older than that.

The Regius Poem, or Halliwell Manuscript as it has come to be known, is considered by many to be the oldest written record of the practice of Freemasonry and it is commonly agreed that this document was written around 1390. Line 143 of the Regius Poem suggests that there were even older documents, as it says, " By olde tyme wryten y fynde (By old time written I find)".

Further evidence to indicate that the Grand Lodge of England's formation in 1717 was a quite recent innovation is easy to see in Kilwinning Lodge No. 0, also known as the Mother Lodge of Scotland. This Lodge is known to exist from the 1140's and was chartering other Lodges in the late 12th century.

Rosslyn Chapel, founded in 1446 has many carvings of Masonic symbolism.

One of the biggest misconceptions that people have about the Scottish and York Rites is that they provide 'higher degrees of Freemasonry'. Both of these organizations merely require that a man be a Mason in good standing, before he petitions for membership, and are no more than appendant bodies.

As far as kilts and Mason's go, a good friend of mine who is a member of the Scotish Rite said no one at the local chapters in this area actually wear kilts to the meetings, though he said that one guy thought he was supposed to when he showed up kilted at his first meeting.

If any member of the Scottish Rite felt he was supposed to wear a kilt to any Scottish Rite function, he must have slept through his degree work.

As a 32° member of the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Indianapolis, I am afforded no special treatment when I sit in my Masonic Lodge, as a Masonic Lodge does not recognize the appendant degrees. My Lodge allows me to wear symbols identifying myself as a Past Master, but Scottish Rite regalia is not allowed.

Non-Masons speculating about Freemasonry is as edifying as men speculating about birthing a child. There's little more than guess-work involved.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

People associate the beginnings of Freemasonry with the formation of the Grand Lodge of England, 24 June 1717. A Mason can tell you that this merely marked the beginning of what is known as the Modern Era of Freemasonry, as we know Freemasonry is much older than that.

Mike, you are right, of course -- I was referring to the modern form of Freemasonry as that's what most people mean when they use that term. It's origins lie in the actual working masonic guilds and confraternities of Medieval Europe. (This is where all those cathedrals "built by masons" come from). Sometime after the Reformation the guilds began to accept membership by "honorary" masons -- i.e. people who were not actually stone masons. As time passed on, these honorary masons outnumbered actual working masons and thus you have the beginning of speculative masonry, which is were the modern form of Freemasonry gets its beginnings. The first such Grand Lodge, as you said, was in London in 1717.

But my main point was just to say that Freemasonry is not particularly Scottish -- in other words, it's not something that is unique to Scotland, or intrinsic to Scottish culture. Yes, Freemasonry exists in Scotland, there were some famous buildings in Scotland built by masons, and some famous Scottish people who were masons -- but even moreso in England and America. And you can say the same thing about France and Spain, and Italy, and Canada and on and on.....

Like I said in my first post, I meet people sometime (sometimes Masons but mostly non-Masons) who automatically associate Freemasonry with things Scottish as if the two necessarily go hand-in-hand. I simply wanted to dispell that.

[Jimmy the Celt]

This is a fascinating thread. My greatfather is a Freemason, and I have developed an interest in Masonry.

My first thought was that they had indeed confused the kilt with the Mason's apron, but there are those who have heard of the Scottish Rite and inevitably connect Scotch heritage with Freemasonry. Also, I have seen lodge members dressed in very fine kilt outfits, with the square-and-compass symbol on sporrans, kilt pins, etc. So I can see why some people would make that connection.

Thanks for starting such a fascinating discussion, Rex

~James

[Monkey@Arms]

If any member of the Scottish Rite felt he was supposed to wear a kilt to any Scottish Rite function, he must have slept through his degree work.

As a 32° member of the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite, Valley of Indianapolis, I am afforded no special treatment when I sit in my Masonic Lodge, as a Masonic Lodge does not recognize the appendant degrees. My Lodge allows me to wear symbols identifying myself as a Past Master, but Scottish Rite regalia is not allowed.

Non-Masons speculating about Freemasonry is as edifying as men speculating about birthing a child. There's little more than guess-work involved.

That's all well and good, but you really didn't say anything that sheds light on Rex's original query which was: "is there any reason why someone would think that the kilt is at all indicative of a Mason?"

Best regards,

Jake

[Frank McGrath]

For the most informative book on Freemansonry, Read the Idiot's guide to Freemasonry. It will answer most all questions. I am a Master Mason. I have worn my kilt to lodge several times. There is even a group of masons in New Jersey that do degree work (read the book) in kilts and PC's. I have a masonic kilt pin, hose and sporran. But I can no longer wear my kilt to lodge. I am the lodge chaplain, and must wear a tux until I get a PC. If any one wants to know more about Freemasonry, look up your State's Grand lodge on the internet. There are links for those interested in joining. It really is an honorable organization, and we are not plotting the overthrow of the Govt. Become a Mason. You might even have some fun.

[AnimalK]

Greetings, Brother Frank!!

I too, am a Master Mason, Grapevine #288 AF&AM. Our Junior Steward has worn his Bluebonnet Plaid, his Gunn Modern, etc with the Masonic buckle, etc to lodge. Until I received my trads, I wore my UK on occasion (I am Senior Steward---TUMS are provided free of charge).

IIRC, the Grand Lodge of Texas has adopted the Bluebonnet as its "official" tartan and I may get one myself.

[mudd]

Very interesting thread.

My Grandfather (the one who gives me a connection to clan Macintosh) was a mason, as was my Father and as is my Brother. I was never interested though.

[KiltedTurtle]

Greetings, Brother Frank!!

I too, am a Master Mason, Grapevine #288 AF&AM. Our Junior Steward has worn his Bluebonnet Plaid, his Gunn Modern, etc with the Masonic buckle, etc to lodge. Until I received my trads, I wore my UK on occasion (I am Senior Steward---TUMS are provided free of charge).

IIRC, the Grand Lodge of Texas has adopted the Bluebonnet as its "official" tartan and I may get one myself.

Greetings to both of you brothers,

I too am a master mason and have worn my kilt a couple of time to lodge. I will be installed as master of the lodge on Dec 16 and I will be kilted for the ceremony. Not only that my installing master (another proud member of Clan MacTavish) will be wearing his kilt for the occasion. I also know of one other brother whose coming kilted.

As to Rex's original question, the only link that I can see is the Scottish Rite link. I have never been asked this and never even heard of anyone making that link before.

[Frank McGrath]

Our local Shrine temple, Boumi Temple, sponsors several bands and groups. One is a pipe band. The Highlanders. When I wore my kilt to the Grand Lodge Harvest Home day, several people asked me if I was a highlander. I told them no, that I lived in the valley. Most thought I was just nuts. (most do anyway) Then, I found out about the band when I was motioned over to a table and was given the pep talk about becoming a shriner. But I did meet several members of the pipe band when they saw the kilt. Every where I go kilted, I always meet new people. Ain't it great.

[Mike1]

I will be installed as master of the lodge on Dec 16 and I will be kilted for the ceremony.

Congratulations! I simply cannot express to you the honor that is being conferred upon you by your Brethren. If you are anything like the rest that have been honored to sit in that celebrated chair, in about 48-49 weeks, you'll be getting a really good idea of what you want to accomplish during your year.

As my year came to a close, there were rumors that I could be elected back to the South. I declined the opportunity, a decision I sometimes regret. I would likely have had the opportunity to sit in the Master's chair, for a second time in just three years.

Are there any York Rite members among us? If so, and you would be up to answering a couple of general questions, please drop me a PM.