Also, Erisian - this was mentioned a few posts back but not gone into in detail - look at how craigie suspends a sporran from a kilt belt at sporrans dot com - no chain to allow the sporran to slide down the belly. And now that I've FINALLY gotten to the end of this thread (and am making it longer, heh) Hamish; you asked about our cowboy's tartan back on page 13 - as a Texan I must bow my head in shame and acknowledge that that is our Great States Texas Bluebonnet Tartan - see http://www.txscot.com/images/BBT002.jpg Cheers!