A Military box pleat kilt

[Alan H]

Perhaps you and w2f might collaborate on a manual? *hint, hint*

think of it as an addendum to the Art of Kiltmaking. 10-13 pages plus a dozen photographs should do it.

[way2fractious]

Perhaps you and w2f might collaborate on a manual? *hint, hint*

think of it as an addendum to the Art of Kiltmaking. 10-13 pages plus a dozen photographs should do it.

Why am I not surprised that Alan H suggests someone else write another manual?

JohnH, I read through your info above - and found myself tripping down memory lane. The pics of pleats basted into place with two vertical basting lines, and several other lines too, made my fingers itch. Those pics match some that I posted a long while back.

The good news is: What you and I posted were still learning exercises. When I covered some of these steps with Elsie, and showed her my practice pieces, she steered me back into steps that more closely align with those of the traditional knife-pleat. The practice pieces allowed you and me to explore and confirm the mechanics, but the actual process is really much easier.

Back to Alan's nudging, I made one aborted attempt to re-write certain paragraphs on certain pages of The Art of Kiltmaking. I abandoned it because in truth it would have been an act of plagiarism against Barb T, whom I had not consulted regarding such a thing. Perhaps it still could be done, with her permission and/or involvement. I will be seeing her in a couple weeks in Victoria, BC at the 2007 Kilt Kamp. (Another item for that weekend's agenda. )

[JohnH]

In the regiments, a band of elastic is tacked in the inside loosely across the pleats, probably to help keep the intricate pleats from unfolding too much and not refolding correctly. (w2f)

Just like this:


Elastic is sewn to alternate pleats. It is 5 1/2" up from the bottom. My knife pleat ex Black Watch does not have this, so it would appear to only be used on the box pleat kilts. My very first kilt was ex-Seaforth and it had the elastic.

The good news is: What you and I posted were still learning exercises. (w2f)

I hear you loud and clear. My Douglas currently has bastings running every which-way! But, it's the best way to learn. This leads me to have some sympathy for Alan H's request for a manual, as I do believe that this technique should not be allowd to die out. Speaking of which, The new Royal Regiment of Scotland’s kilts will be made in Scotland with fabric woven by Robert Noble, although it will be 16 oz. and they will be machine-stitched (Hmmm....will this quest never end?) box pleats, using a version of the Argyle tartan with a lightened green. (Basically, Black Watch. Does this make it Pattern 1B?)

[The 64 hand sewn prototypes that were made by Argyle Bagpipes were recently offered for sale on eBay.co.uk. I did not buy one because they are current issue, but, it was very tempting. {It’s an honour thing. I do wear my Naval dress sword belt (minus the frog) with my kilts even though it is still current issue, but I did serve in the RN, as did both of my parents. I never did and never will serve in the RRS.}] The expired auction can be seen at:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...3216&rd=1&rd=1

Note these kilts may be relisted later as none appear to have been sold.

I will be seeing her in a couple weeks in Victoria, BC at the 2007 Kilt Kamp.
(w2f)

I was originally going to be there, but my work has an annoying habit of interfering with my leisure time and I had to cancel.

[Pleater]

I read through all the posts three times before the penny dropped as to what this is.

It is a box pleat, not the three layer 'simple' nor the five layers of the same size version - it is, as I count them, a variant of the five layer with three layers the same size and the inner two layers extended to cover two pleats.

Sort of a box pleat and knife pleat combined.

I can 'see' it now - but the thing would be to make one.

Just to be sure that I have it clear, for the standard male pattern, the longer back fold - that is the same orientation as the single pleat of a knife pleated kilt, and would point towards the back on the left and the front on the right?

I wonder if I can adapt it to a Kinguisse style and not go mad in the process? No need to answer that, I think I lost the plot some time ago.

I do have some not really a tartan fabric, which has a nice stripe in it though - I must have a go just to see if I can do it.

Reducing in size would require the inner workings to be removed and the individual pleats in the fell made narrower - I think I might make this kilt several inches too small for me at the moment, by the time I finish it it will probably fit.

Ah the joy of kilt making - just when you think you have really got a handle on it someone adds a whole extra dimension.

[JohnH]

Sort of a box pleat and knife pleat combined.

It's probably closer to a knife. If you lay out a kilt for knife pleats and then fold the reveal part of the knife back on itself, you end up with the military box pleat. Of course, the stitching is completely different.

Just to be sure that I have it clear, for the standard male pattern, the longer back fold - that is the same orientation as the single pleat of a knife pleated kilt, and would point towards the back on the left and the front on the right?

Yes, the back part of the pleat is standard knife and the front (visible) part points the other way.

I wonder if I can adapt it to a Kinguisse style and not go mad in the process? No need to answer that, I think I lost the plot some time ago.

If that doesn't drive you mad, consider (like me!) the possibility of doing this to the sett!

Ah the joy of kilt making - just when you think you have really got a handle on it someone adds a whole extra dimension.

But without the continual challenges, life would be boring.

[way2fractious]

If that doesn't drive you mad, consider (like me!) the possibility of doing this to the sett!

After making my 16 oz Weathered MacLaren military box pleat kilt - and just for kicks! - I took the remaining portion of the ripped center strip and basted it up in mil-boxes pleated to the sett. Just as in a regular knife pleated kilt, the pleats are slightly deeper because of the added "next element" of the sett. If you get the tapers marked and stitched right, the pleats are no problem to baste. (Hmmm... I think that practice piece is still kicking around here somewhere...)

It is a box pleat, not the three layer 'simple' nor the five layers of the same size version - it is, as I count them, a variant of the five layer with three layers the same size and the inner two layers extended to cover two pleats.

Sort of a box pleat and knife pleat combined.

I can 'see' it now - but the thing would be to make one.
...
I wonder if I can adapt it to a Kinguisse style and not go mad in the process? No need to answer that, I think I lost the plot some time ago.

Yes, this is not the simple three-layer box pleat. As JohnH pointed out, from the outside it is simply a knife-pleated kilt, but approximately one inch of each knife edge of each pleat is folded back the other direction. Usually that folded back inch "reveals" the stripe, the same stripe in the stitched tapers above the fell line.

Adapt it to the Kinguisse style pleating? I hadn't thought about it, but I'm guessing that if you get the tapers marked and stitched right, and allow for the center back box pleat, then the other pleats should be no problem to baste. I have not made a Kinguisse-style kilt from wool tartan before, so I may have to try one someday, but I cannot visualize military boxes adding anything particularly striking to its presentation.

[JimB]

I just want to say thank you to John and others who have contributed to this thread. I'm going to have to absorb this for a while, but if I can figure it out, I'm making one!

[Pleater]

If that doesn't drive you mad, consider (like me!) the possibility of doing this to the sett!
But without the continual challenges, life would be boring.

To the sett? TO THE SETT!!!

Oh deary deary me.

You do indeed like to push the boundaries.

The more I look at it the more I see it as a five five fold box pleat with the innermost 'arm' extended to double the length of the inner one.

Or, another way to look at it is a knife pleat where the innermost layer of the fold has been slid to the left (looking at the waist band end from the outside of the kilt) so as to make a reverse pleat equal in size to the reveal of the pleat.

Looking at it that way there is the posibility of sewing the pleats by machine, which I think I will have to do. Even making my own kilts I am finding it difficult to afford them - so much time required to get the pleats just right.

I suspect that a military box pleat will add more movement to the Kinguisse and reverse Kinguisse style kilts - particularly in a heavier fabric.

I have the other side of the fabric I used for the 'eight yards of darkness' kilt - a 'peached' cotton. The knife pleats cling a little - I think that will be the first mbp reverse Kinguisse kilt in existance. I will work on the patterned cloth once I am sure of the technique.

Now - if each inch of pleat requires seven inches of cloth - so - where's an old envelope? To get thirty one pleats - mmm could do that in the Kinguisse style, but reversed it would have to be an even number....