A Military box pleat kilt

[way2fractious]

Here are some pics comparing box pleats to military box pleats. Hope these help.


Here are the box pleats you have seen - basted up at about 2 1/2 inces wide. See how few there are to cover my skinny backside. This is a 4-yard kilt.



The left side of this pic shows the depth (about 2 inches) and reveals (about 1 inch) of a military box pleat kilt. I needed all 8 yards of tartan for this kilt and about 21-22 of these much narrower pleats.



The following was posted by Panache - pics at a kilt night where Alan H was wearing his California tartan box pleat kilt (4th pic) and I was wearing my Weathered MacLaren military box pleat kilt (5th pic). The differences are quite distinct, but each is a kilt, each has its place, and everyone has preferences.

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...48&postcount=1


Now, if you ask again...


I'll drive down to Arizona with my whole kollection (threaten, threaten)




BTW - did you mean to buy a box pleat from Matt or an MBP from me?

w2f

[Wompet]

I think this is what MacDougall is looking for:
pleating styles compared

BTW - did you mean to buy a box pleat from Matt or an MBP from me?

Well, if he isn't, I am.
Just kidding - but once I find that right tartan, you'll be getting a passel of PMs from me when I attempt mine.

[JohnH]

Reading this thread just shows me how far I have to go! I am admittedly tired after a long day of work and two drinks, but I realize how far out of my league I am in this whole kilt making business.....Yay, the challenge of learning new things ! (The F-H.C.A.G.)

I'm not convinced as your sewing skills are much more advanced than mine. I view these pleats as just another technique, the layout and sewing are where the skill is required. (I trained as an electronics engineer, so I suppose that I am looking at cold logic here.)

There does seem to be some confusion about military box pleats. The real problem is that they are mis-named (but we're stuck with it.). What they really are, are rolled knife pleats. Thank you for finding that link Wompet. I just spent a couple of hours looking for it! (The search engine does not like "box" because it has less than 4 characters.)

Normally, these kilts are pleated with one sett to the pleat, although the kilts worn by the Royal Scots and the Canadian Scottish (Hunting Stewart.) are pleated to alternate stripes. (Red, yellow, red, yellow etc.) I pleated my Hunting Rose kilt in this manner and had 8" left over from 8 yards.

That was because I used 1 1/2 setts per pleat. (27 pleats.) To do it that way for 31 pleats would require 9+ yards. I can only assume that the military Hunting Stewart kilts are pleated alternately with 1 1/2 and 1/2 a sett. This would average 1 sett per pleat, but the pleat depths would also alternate between 1 1/2" and 3". I have never seen one of these kilts up close so, does anyone know?

[Fraser and Kirkbright will weave a batch of 13oz PV in Hunting Stewart if there is enough demand. (Hint. Hint.)]

Progress update: I finally got the pleat folds to butt together and lay flat. I just put in the steeking and reinforcement strip. (The pleat measurements ended up spot on target!) The canvas is next.

[Wompet]

I had to use "military pleat diagram" to find it.
13 oz Hunting Stewart PV ... I'll have to get back to you about that (not here - no hijacking).

[Mr. MacDougall]

I'll drive down to Arizona with my whole kollection (threaten, threaten)

Well, we do have the Flagstaff games coming up, if you'd like to visit!

BTW - did you mean to buy a box pleat from Matt or an MBP from me?

Are you sure that's an "or" question?

I think this is what MacDougall is looking for:
pleating styles compared

Thank you... between the photos and the diagram, I believe I understand. What I'm not clear on is why anyone would pleat that way in the first place... I mean, I understand now that it's a traditional style, and it gives more 'swish,' and so on... but why would anyone look at a length of cloth, all those years ago, and think, "Ah! Let's do it this way!"?

[Pleater]

. What I'm not clear on is why anyone would pleat that way in the first place... I mean, I understand now that it's a traditional style, and it gives more 'swish,' and so on... but why would anyone look at a length of cloth, all those years ago, and think, "Ah! Let's do it this way!"?

I think it is the solution I needed to find, and missed, when I wanted to make a box pleated kilt with more fabric in it.

I progressed from the three layered box pleat, by extending the folds so it was five layers, but I never made the next step of extending the innermost fold over onto the next box, to make seven layers.

The evolution of the military style from a simple box pleated kilt rather than a knife pleat is I think the most likely - and it does seem to provide a 'missing link' for the development of the modern knife pleated kilt from the box pleated.

[JohnH]

I have finally finished it! I made one (more!) mistake. I forgot to add the elastic before pressing. I added it later and it does not seem to matter when it is added. It definitely improves the swish!





I did do one thing differently from the book. (Sorry Barb!) I added a triple fringe as I think it looks better than a double one. (As far as I know, genuine military kilts are not fringed. Probably because the Army thinks that they would soon get messed up! Or that the soldiers would forget to comb them!) Follow the instructions on p. 99 of The Book, but take a wider piece of scrap, fold it with an edge offset of about 8mm., (About 5/16”) stitch it down (I used a machine.) and press it. Then, fringe all 3 layers to 8mm. Carry on as per the instructions and the total fringe width ends up the same as two ½” fringes.




I used a black top band only because my local fabric store did not stock the usual grass-green one. (I had to finish it by hand as my machine stopped dead when it got to the double layer of canvas at the end of the apron (and I thought it was heavy duty.))

A final thought: both of my ex-military kilts have the twill lines running the wrong way! Apart from that, they are perfect. (Is this an officer/other ranks thing, or, is it not actually specified in the Specification?) (I just noticed that the twill also runs the wrong way on my Buchanan ex-Sierra Pipeband kilt. It's visible in the fringe pic.)

Now I have to decide what to do with the other half of the fabric.

[The F-H.C.A.G.]

Congratulations on a job well done-that's a beautiful piece of work!

Be well,

[way2fractious]

Very nice work. The kilt came out beautifully. The inside of the pleats showed that your work was meticulous.

...elastic... triple fringe... black top band... twill lines...other half of the fabric...

There is no elastic band in my MBP, probably because I was not trying to recreate a military kilt (or because I was too lazy.) When I restore the old Seaforth Highlander kilt it will be be there.

I have never, ever, liked offset fringes, especially those little bristle-like 3/8-inch things on some commercial kilts. Give me a REAL fringed edge! So I use a five-inch piece, fringe both sides to a full 1/2-inch, fold one edge behind the other, and line it up behind the fringed fabric edge for a triple layer, but not offset or staggered.

The top band on my Weathered MacLaren MBP is made, as traditional for a civilian kilt, from the same tartan.

Earlier threads discussing twill lines ultimately reached the conclusion that most modern weaving machines and techniques produce tartan fabric that is indistinguishable between right side and wrong side. Look at any rack of rental kilts (or, kilts for hire) and 50% will be right side and 50% will be wrong side. It's probably the same in the military kiltmaking shops, where speed is paramount to niggly little details such as this.

Now you can carry through on your "threat" or "challenge" to Pleater (shame on you for toying so callously with her mind!) and fashion the other half into an MBP pleated to the sett.

Again, impressive work. We'll have to correspond further after the Kilt Kamp.

w2f

[Pleater]

Now you can carry through on your "threat" or "challenge" to Pleater (shame on you for toying so callously with her mind!) and fashion the other half into an MBP pleated to the sett.

w2f

Not list'ning!!! got my fingers in my ears DAAH DEE DEE DAAH - can't hear anything about pleating a MB to the sett. OH!!!!

BUGGER!!!!!

Not dooin it no no no way - not even thinking about it.

So how would you even start ....? I mean - no no no!!!