Where's your Bagpipes?

[PiobBear]

For example, here's what I would probably have to spend at a minimum right out of the gate to set up a set of Pakistani bagpipes in addition to the purchase price:

L&M Hide Bag $125.00
McCallum Pipe Chanter: $130.00
Selbie Drone Reeds: $85.00
Ross Chanter Reeds : $9.75 ea.
Rubber Blowpipe Valve: $2.75
Throw in some waxed hemp, tie-in cord, etc., say around $275 and change, including shipping.

Add the $135.00 purchase price of the Pakistani pipes...with shipping, maybe $150; $425.00. You might need to rebore or replace the chanter stock, the blowpipe and the blowpipe stock; some folks polish and even rebore the drones; not only a lot of work for a dubious outcome, but beyond the ken of most beginners. If it doesn't work out, the chanter and drone reeds will have a higher resale value than the entire set combined.

Now, here's what is available on EBay today:

Lawrie with original blackwood chanter; dinged up mounts but probably playable: $305.00.
2 Hardie's with their orginal blackwood chanters; one with an extra Dunbar chanter: $400.00 & $700.00.
Shepherd with engraved silver; cracked but probably repairable tenor: $405.00.
Gibson with a blackwood chanter $810.00.
2 McCallum AB4's: $1,150 & $1,100.

Most of these come complete with cases, reeds, hemp, etc., and can be set up to be reliable, steady, musical pipes, where the beginner can focus on his piping instead of endlessly tinkering with his wonky pipes. If it doesn't work out, he can probably sell them for about what he paid for them. These are what I would call "beginners sets".

[wgority]

You might need to rebore or replace the chanter stock, the blowpipe and the blowpipe stock; some folks polish and even rebore the drones; not only a lot of work for a dubious outcome, but beyond the ken of most beginners. If it doesn't work out, the chanter and drone reeds will have a higher resale value than the entire set combined.

Generally the bore of the drones on the Pakistani manufactured pipes are almost impossible to polish. When attempted, they tend to get fuzzy because of the sheesham (variant of rosewood) is not good. The best you can do is re-bore with an absurdly sharp gun drill and hope that the result is not too open to give a good voice.

I've redone chanters for these and found it a frustrating proposition.

[cajuncelt]

The "impartial" point is this. It has NOTHING to do with an axe to grind and everything to do with knowledge from people who actually play as you put it. "Far-Eastern" pipes are made with inferior material, period. The stresses put on the wood and joints that result from humidity/temperature differences will destroy an inferior set of pipes relatively quickly. The modifications you speak of relate to reed and chanter not pipe modifications. Looks like you have already received plenty of "qualified" opinions, but will probably join the countless clueless crew who believe you found a better cheaper way. You seem to feel there are axes to grind and some ridiculous "us vs. them" issues being sat on. It's experience, both personally and seeing countless others like yourself waste time and money only to see cracks and warping as a result. I say go for it. You seem to have found the only "Far-Eastern" pipe manufacturer in the world that makes pipes from material that doesn't go to crap quickly. Another one lost in the woods...

I'm just curious about hearing from someone who plays the pipes AND doesn't have an axe to grind in this "Far Eastern versus the 'Real Thing'" discussion AND who has actually tried the FC pipes. Judging by the photos on the FC website, they're selling what looks like the same stuff that other internet dealers...I would expect that it's possible, though, that someone over there might be working up to the tolerances necessary for a set of those pipes to be considered "playable" but not necessarily "excellent".

From what I heard over the past weekend at the Highland Games, even the name-brand pipes end up needing modifications to suit the individual player and to fit in with a band's sound. We've heard that someone in the forum did get a set of the "Far-Eastern" pipes "playable" after a certain amount of re-adjusting and part substitutions.

I'm not trying to be pro or con on this topic but I would like to see someone who's a qualified player give an impartial opinion once and for all...

Best

AA

[highlander_Daz]

Ive a set of eastern pipes and Eventually got them to work with a Warmac chanter and some Souter reeds, however I had to saw the tenor drones shorter in order to get them to tune and even then they had no tone, the chanter that came with them was so far out you wouldnt believe.

My own set were made by Colin Winstanley (how invented the universal blowpipe) african blackwood very good

[cajuncelt]

I agree. I almost bought a set of these and might still in the future. I have heard Dunbar's polys and they sound GREAT. The McCallums were so close in price though I couldn't pass them up.

Well, blackwood afficianados may disagree with me, but, may I suggest the Dunbar P1 pipes? That is what I have and they are really very nice (and, they are much less expensive than blackwood, AND, as an added bonus, they are very durable and don not require as much to maintain 'em!).
By the way...I hear that you are NEVER too old to learn! Especially if you are playing for enjoyment (your own and others)!
I'm just starting out at age 33 (drat! my secret revealed...hee, hee!), and will never be a competition piper or the like, but I hope to have years of enjoyment for myself and others.

[Panache]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I should note that I do not use this phrase loosely. I am quite proud of our forum and the fact that we can offer our opinions and disagree and still remain the Ladies and Gentlemen of X Marks the Scot. There have been some pretty good points raised here from some experienced pipers. I would like all of you to keep the following in mind.

"****" is a derrogatory term. It would certainly be appreciated if this word never showed up on our forum again. Futhermore it would be the sign of good fellowship to edit a previous post and change this offensive term.

Keep in mind there may very well be some aspiring pipers reading this thread that are awfully proud of their pipes (wherever they come from) and their efforts. One can offer advice without insult (as many have been able to do on this thread).

Beware Gross Generalizations! To say that all the pipes (or kilts, or whatevers) you have experienced from a certain place have not met your standards is one thing. To pronounce that every such item made there is terrible may not be that accurate. Once not too long ago Japanese cars were regarded as cheaply made and flimsy, who is to say where bagpipes made in Pakistan may go.

Cheers

Jamie

[pipebear333]

I was really pleased to find this thread and the attitude that you're never too old to start learning to play the pipes. I've been dissatisfied with my drumming lately and have been thinking of trying the pipes. Other than drums the only other instrument I've attempted was guitar, and that was a mess. I feel inspired to give this a go. Now if I just had a clue as to what everyone was talking about in the rest of this thread.

[highlander_Daz]

agreed p@ki can get you the sack over here just saying the word, however I think on this occasion we are pretty much in agreement that eastern made pipes are not to the same standards as ones bought elsewhere as a general rule.

[Kiltedfirepiper]

Perhaps, in order to help you make up your mind, you could listen to the differences via videos of bands on YouTube. I have seen and heard what were clearly ****-pipes played by bands in the Middle East (I think Jerusalem?) from there.

there is a DVD series called instrument of war, and they have the Jordan pipe band playing on there.....yes they DO sound different, BUT thats because they TUNE their pipes different( to me they sounded REALLY flat)...I didnt really care for where they tuned to, but to each thier own.... also it didnt sound like they tuned to each other either. but that could have been due to the fact that it wasnt possible to tune to each other


I started with a pakistani set...for the $$ I spent on getting it playable ( mind you I DID get it playable) I could have bought a good set of ABW's
$475 for the pipes, + another 300 for bag, chanter, reeds, ect....as they say hindsight is 20/20

[auld argonian]

Thanks to Piobear for providing a very clear and patient explanation of where the problems lie.

Best

AA