What does the "dicing" mean?

[Graywolf]

My understanding is the red and white dicing indicated support for the House of Hanover, i.e., King George, and blue and white indicated support of the House of Stewart, i.e, King James and Bonni Prince Charlie.

[macwilkin]

Some have said that the dicing symbolizes allegiance to the crown.

I have always been led to understand that the dicing does have "government" connections.There are certainly many people in the Western highlands here, that would not be seen with a diced(civilian)bonnet.

My understanding is the red and white dicing indicated support for the House of Hanover, i.e., King George, and blue and white indicated support of the House of Stewart, i.e, King James and Bonni Prince Charlie.

That's always been the legend, and yet I have never seen any documentation supporting it. Stuart Reid, in 18th Century Highlanders, actually quotes one Stewart of Garth who believed that dicing "was intended to represent the fesse-chequey of the Stuart arms", which would make the dicing a Stewart symbol, and not a Hanoverian one, but Reid does not endorse this; he belives that dicing mirrored the diced hose, and even notes that some contemporary drawings have bonnets with a diagonal pattern. Since diced bonnets really aren't seen until after the '45 (1760's-1770's), the assigning of certain loyalties to them may be a romantic notion only.

If it was the case, then wouldn't the Royal Highland Regiment, the Black Watch, have worn diced bonnets, since they were the senior Highland regiment raised for service to the crown?

And I've never seen anything about blue and white dicing being a Jacobite symbol; the white cockade really is more of that, with the black or red cockade (some of the independent companies wore red saltires in their bonnets) symbolizing government forces.

Then there's the whole matter of the "Sillitoe tartan", aka police dicing, which was adopted by Sir Percy Silitoe, Chief Constable of the Glasgow Police, as a way to distinguish police offices, especially at night. The "Sillitoe tartan" has become a universal symbol of police, with many forces around the world adopting it. But that's another story...

Regards,

Todd

[McG]

A believe the dicing o' hats is a regimental thing. Aw scottish regiments wear dicing roon there Glengarry's and a tartan swatch on there TOS (tam o shanter) Fer example the KOSB and Highland regiments hae a Red, white and Green dicing roond there,s. The Argylls wear Red and White. Ma mate has a black and white diced balmoral which a believe wis a Lovat Scout bonnet.

[macwilkin]

A believe the dicing o' hats is a regimental thing. Aw scottish regiments wear dicing roon there Glengarry's and a tartan swatch on there TOS (tam o shanter) Fer example the KOSB and Highland regiments hae a Red, white and Green dicing roond there,s. The Argylls wear Red and White. Ma mate has a black and white diced balmoral which a believe wis a Lovat Scout bonnet.

See my post above; dicing is associated with the regiments, as you state. The web site canadiansoldiers.com has a very good article about the different styles of dicing in the Canadian Scottish regiments; since many of the Canadian regiments were affiliated with Scottish regiments, you can get a better picture of all the different styles of dicing:

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/medi...itle=Glengarry

And yes, you are correct; the Lovat Scouts did wear a balmoral with black and white dicing:

http://members.aol.com/mazwalker/brechin/jack.jpg

http://www.benbeculahistorysociety.c.../Lovat_png.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/alba/r...eachan_old.jpg

http://www.wardetectives.info/projec.../inve0029a.htm

Regards,

Todd

[Warhoover]

Excellent article Todd! Thanks for posting that for us. I would assume that the Canadian Regiments would have mirrored what their counter parts in the UK were wearing?

[cacunn]

http://www.benbeculahistorysociety.c.../Lovat_png.jpg

As I looked at this picture I found it interesting the different ways the balmorals are being worn. Some seem to have the crown flat across the head, some are pulled down in the front each seems to be somewhat unique to the wearer. I then think of the beret worn by the US Army. all seem to have been molded over the same frame work. No originality at all.

[macwilkin]

As I looked at this picture I found it interesting the different ways the balmorals are being worn. Some seem to have the crown flat across the head, some are pulled down in the front each seems to be somewhat unique to the wearer. I then think of the beret worn by the US Army. all seem to have been molded over the same frame work. No originality at all.

Actually, a buddy of mine who is in the reserves is forever complaining about the lack of uniformity in how the troops are wearing the berets -- he, being ex-82nd Airborne, shaped his beret following the airborne style, which is similar to the British fashion.

T.

[Nervous Jock]

As I looked at this picture I found it interesting the different ways the balmorals are being worn. Some seem to have the crown flat across the head, some are pulled down in the front each seems to be somewhat unique to the wearer. I then think of the beret worn by the US Army. all seem to have been molded over the same frame work. No originality at all.

I wouldn't have said the styles were that different in the picture most wear then from left to right like a beret. You may notice that the Officers tend to have theirs all the same way and the jocks have the variation.

There was always a variation in the way different regiments wore their ToS. Some like berets others with the fronts pulled straight down and the sides turned up!!

As this looks like a prewar (2) photo you also need to remember there was a damn sight more material in the bunnet then

[BonnieT100]

As I looked at this picture I found it interesting the different ways the balmorals are being worn. Some seem to have the crown flat across the head, some are pulled down in the front each seems to be somewhat unique to the wearer. I then think of the beret worn by the US Army. all seem to have been molded over the same frame work. No originality at all.

Quite the contrary actually. There is the regulation way and then there is the reality way. A look at my platoon shows several different ways of wearing it. You can see pics of people who haven't seen a forest since basic training who wear the beret all sorts of screwy. Then there are the Rangers who wear theirs so far down that it covers their right eye and the head band on the left side is closer to their crown than their ear. Being a graduate of the Officer Candidate School, a veteran of the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), and a current member of the 82nd Airborne Division, mine is, of course, always worn in the correct manner, when the wind isn't interfering with it and when it hasn't spent the weekend crumpled up in my pocket.

[Nervous Jock]

A believe the dicing o' hats is a regimental thing. Aw scottish regiments wear dicing roon there Glengarry's and a tartan swatch on there TOS (tam o shanter) Fer example the KOSB and Highland regiments hae a Red, white and Green dicing roond there,s. The Argylls wear Red and White. Ma mate has a black and white diced balmoral which a believe wis a Lovat Scout bonnet.

While the New Regiment is standardised if we go back (which I assume you have done because you mentioned KOSB) he Black Watch didn't have dicing round there Glengarry. Like wise no tartan patch.