Irish Tartans Questions

[macwilkin]

The Ulster tartan occurred to me, but I think it could be distinguished from the later Irish tartans as it was most likely worn by Scots (or a Scot) who probably would not have identified themselves as being Irish, but as Scots merely living in Ireland at the time. It is a beautiful tartan IMHO.

Good point, gilmore. Some scholars believe it was woven in Ireland, and then sent to the Highlands where it was made into the pair of trews, as per the article on the Ulster-Scots agency. And yes, it's pedigree is certainly more Scottish than Irish, much like the Ulster-Scots themselves.

Cheers,

Todd

[Gàidhlig]

I find the obsession of "recognition" and "official" interesting


I don't need an agency, clan chief or some book to tell me what is "recognized" and "official".

I too, could care more or less about someones "Official" stamp of approval on a tartan. My family is extreamely proud of our scottish roots. We take pride in our clan tartans. This summer my wife attended her first highland games and truely had a great time. As with most games, there were vendors that sold general Celtic items, and these indeed included irish themed items. My wife has always been proud of her Irish heritage, as was her father, who's mother was an O'connell. She searched high and low for something with her family name, but to no avail.
Every member of my family will have a kilt or kilted skirt at the next games. I know my wife will not have a problem wearing our tartan, but I also know it would mean twice as much to her if she had one of her own family and roots. Especially since loosing her father just a couple of years back. This is what began me on my quest.
Regaurdless of its recognition as official or not...something I can give to her and say "This is YOUR family tartan". Something to wear with ours to represent both sides. Something that when I tell her it is her familys heritage, she can look up on her own and find it, and have that same sense of pride that each one of us feels when we put on our tartans.

[porrick]

We take pride in our clan tartans.

Something that when I tell her it is her familys heritage, she can look up on her own and find it, and have that same sense of pride that each one of us feels when we put on our tartans.

Aye, I agree. Though my non-official tartans do indeed represent my heritage:

Murphy tartan for being a Murphy
Antrim being the county my Irish side of the family comes from
Irish National to show pride in the Irish side of my family.

Good luck in your quest - let us know what you come up with

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Whether or not a tartan is "official" does indeed matter -- but only as much as you want it to.

While I certainly don't think anyone should be derided for choosing to wear a fashion tartan, I also don't think anyone should be derided for caring whether their tartan is official or not.

Just to give one example, several past cheifs of the Clan Campbell have made the point of stating that the Black Watch tartan is the official tartan for the clan. There are other approved clan tartans, such as Campbell of Cawdor, Campbell of Louden, and Campbell of Breadalbabe. But they have specifically pointed out that the so-called "Campbell of Argyll" and Dress Campbell are not proper clan tartans and should only be considered fashion or fancy tartans. And the "red Campbell" tartan? No such thing, as far as the cheifs are concerned.

Now, if you happen to like the Campbell of Argyll tartan and want to wear it despite what the cheif says, no one is going to fault you for it.

On the other hand, if by wearing your tartan you are attempting to show your pride and allegiance to your clan, it may be very important to you what the cheif of that clan declares the true clan tartan to be. The fact that the cheif has specifically said that this is not regarded as a clan tartan will be important in your decision.

[macwilkin]

Whether or not a tartan is "official" does indeed matter -- but only as much as you want it to.

While I certainly don't think anyone should be derided for choosing to wear a fashion tartan, I also don't think anyone should be derided for caring whether their tartan is official or not.

Just to give one example, several past cheifs of the Clan Campbell have made the point of stating that the Black Watch tartan is the official tartan for the clan. There are other approved clan tartans, such as Campbell of Cawdor, Campbell of Louden, and Campbell of Breadalbabe. But they have specifically pointed out that the so-called "Campbell of Argyll" and Dress Campbell are not proper clan tartans and should only be considered fashion or fancy tartans. And the "red Campbell" tartan? No such thing, as far as the cheifs are concerned.

Now, if you happen to like the Campbell of Argyll tartan and want to wear it despite what the cheif says, no one is going to fault you for it.

On the other hand, if by wearing your tartan you are attempting to show your pride and allegiance to your clan, it may be very important to you what the cheif of that clan declares the true clan tartan to be. The fact that the cheif has specifically said that this is not regarded as a clan tartan will be important in your decision.

Well said, Matt. As I have stated many times, my traditionalist views on Highland attire are directed only at myself. As someone stated earlier, choosing what tartan you wear is very much a personal matter, and for some, an "official" status might be part of their criteria. I know when I ordered my Cumming Hunting kilt, I couldn't decide between the modern & ancient colours. I then saw a photo of our Chief, Sir Alistair, and noted that he was wearing the latter, so I decided to wear those as well in honour of them.

I think there is certainly a place for fashion tartans, and I wouldn't begrudge anyone for wearing them. It really is a matter of mutual respect.

Regards,

Todd

[Gàidhlig]

I think the key to my situation is that there doeasn't seem to be any "Official" tartans for my wifes family. There seem to be tartans for the irish counties, but If I read everyones posts correctly, how "official" those are varies from county to county without much importance to the county itself to declare an official tartan should there not be one because the Irish didn't really have tartans to begin with.
SO basically....I should just go with the Kerry county Tartan, and then even though this tartan may vary from vendor to vendor, just pick the one I like best and give it to her.

Right?

Silly me...here I was thinking this would be a simple question and answer forum.

[porrick]

Silly me...here I was thinking this would be a simple question and answer forum.

Hehe, been there done that. There are numerous simple questions and at times ditto answers, but forumites at times tend to derail and lose sight of the issue or original. I guess a result of many people with many interests and wanting to, eh, I'll stop here

Don't let it deter you

[macwilkin]

Hehe, been there done that. There are numerous simple questions and at times ditto answers, but forumites at times tend to derail and lose sight of the issue or original. I guess a result of many people with many interests and wanting to, eh, I'll stop here

Don't let it deter you

Respectfully, porrick, but I don't think anyone here is trying to "derail" anyone. The subject of Irish tartans can be a complex one filled with myths, and I think the majority of responses have tried to explain the interesting history of Irish tartans.

Regards,

Todd

[Cage]

Sounds like it could be an interesting opportunity to sit down with the MRS. and design one.

[porrick]

Respectfully, porrick, but I don't think anyone here is trying to "derail" anyone. .

I agree, but if you read my post you'll see I make a general statement.

Respectfully, the last two or three replies to this topic just proves the point - also for this thread...

and I thank everybody here on X-Marks for lots of great input and constructive debates. I am ready to move on now.
Thanks again -and happy kilting