What makes a Scot?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

BJ--

As I said, nationality and race are two different things. No matter what your race, when you move to the United States you become an American. It doesn't matter what the motivation was for the move, your ethnicity doesn't change, just your nationality.

Example #1: Mr. Harrar (an Ethiopian) moves to NYC, gets a license to drive a taxi, and takes out U.S. citizenship. Nationality: USA

Example #2: Mr. Harrar (still an Ethiopian and first cousin to the fella in NYC) moves to Glasgow, can't get a taxi license so becomes an accountant, and applies for citizenship, which is duly granted. Nationality? BRITISH. Not Scottish. Not Scots, but British. He becomes a British Subject (just as his disgruntled, SNP-voting neighbour is).

Time for a dose of historical reality here. The Union of Crowns (1603-- which saw James VI pack his golf clubs and gallop off to Merry Olde England never to return) and the Union of Parliaments (1707) put an end to the "nation of Scotland". Okay, it was technically "The Kingdom of Scotland" or some such, but the point is that once the executive and legislative branches left, Scotland was reduced in status to something like an "uber" county. There was a lot of "local" govenment -- and that's been seriously eroded over the years-- but despite (or perhaps, because of) the fuzzy-headed rantings of Mr. Harrar's SNP neighbour in Glasgow, all the "big" decisions were taken by the executive and legislatve bods down in London.

Granted that Scotland has recently been hiked up the govenmental ranks from the status of "Uber County" to something the equivalent of the state of Idaho, now that it has its own multi-district assembly, it still isn't really an independent nation. Even though SNP stalwart Ramsey Luigi Casatti (Mr. Harrar's Glasgow neighbour, who really is -or isn't- Scottish according to your definition) may fantasize about turning Scotland into some sort of throw-back 19th century worker's paradise, complete with a permanent seat on the United Nation's Security Council, the hard fact remains that Scotland hasn't been a "nation" for 201 years, and that it was, at best, only a quasi-nation for 104 years before that.

If a Scottish nation exists at all, it exists in the hearts and minds of the descendants of those people who witnessed the departure of their king and parliament all those centuries ago. That means that someone in Toronto, Canada or Brisbane, Australia or Wellington, New Zealand or Harare, Zimbabwe has as much claim to be a Scot, as someone sitting in a pub in Glasgow, in Great Britain.

[bjproc]

Even though SNP stalwart Ramsey Luigi Casatti (Mr. Harrar's Glasgow neighbour, who really is -or isn't- Scottish according to your definition)

please don't put words in my mouth that i never said, thank you.

what i said was, if somebody born, grown up and lived their life, say in the US, whos forefathers were from scotland 6 generation ago, or any other country, for example, said he had a longing to be back home to scotland, i do find this a bit strange, weather you like it or not.

did you read auld argonian's post?, i thought it was a cracker

there nothing wrong going back to you roots and loving the history of your past family.


also, please don't patronise me about the nationality of this country, i know it brittish, thats what my passport has on it.

well whatever, but thanks for the history lesson, you maybe should've been my history teacher, i may have paid more attention then.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

please don't put words in my mouth that i never said, thank you.

what i said was, if somebody born, grown up and lived their life, say in the US, whos forefathers were from scotland 6 generation ago, or any other country, for example, said he had a longing to be back home to scotland, i do find this a bit strange, weather you like it or not.

did you read auld argonian's post?, i thought it was a cracker

there nothing wrong going back to you roots and loving the history of your past family.


also, please don't patronise me about the nationality of this country, i know it brittish, thats what my passport has on it.

well whatever, but thanks for the history lesson, you maybe should've been my history teacher, i may have paid more attention then.

Sorry if you thought I was putting words in your mouth-- I wasn't. I've used the "is/isn't a Scot according to your definition" in almost every post I've submitted to this and related threads. Given that only the first part of my posting was in direct response to your comments, I probably should have said "one's definitions" but that probably would have confused some one else.

And I'm NOT patronising you about being British, any more than I think some of the people on this thread are being condescending or dismissive to those not born, or raised, or educated, or whatever, north of the Tweed.

The plain fact is that whether one is born in Belfast, Inverness, London, or Cardiff they are British. That's their nationality, and they can like it or lump it. I don't care. I care when the lines of ethnicity start to blur do to someone's poorly defined understanding of their own nationality. Obviously this isn't your problem, but for some of our fellow Scots it seems as though it is a problem.

[seanboy]

why is there a scottish football team, scottish hurling team, scottish rugby team etc etc.

do you no think That given britains unique history and positiion that nationality might be a little more complicated.

I was born and bred in scotland do you have a problem with me calling myself scottish. ?

[Panache]

A simple requirement for membership in this forum is courtesy and respect to the other members.

This thread will be closed if it descends into name calling or personal attacks.

Respectfully

Jamie

[seanboy]

macmillan of rathdown


No they do not, they are not scottish and have no rights to call themselevs scots. I have been warned about plastic scots like this they used to do my friends head in when He went to canada on a scottish exchange.

I have witnessed foreigners come into pubs and call themselves scots, it is not long before they are laughed out the place.

Assuming you are canadian, not only do you have no clue about what it means to be scottish. You probably could not even understand my accent or dialect if I met you. I am sorry but I get realy angry at clueless new worlders who think they can intrude on my identity just because there great grannies dog was scottish

I get angry how canadians like you tell us REAL scots that scotland is not a nation and we have to call ourselves british just so you can bump into our identity.

macmillin you are a plastic scot.