2008 Army Signal Ball Manhattan Kansas

[Sir Robert]

When I advised the poster (to wear the fullsized medals) it was one serviceman talking to another serviceman in the context of a military ball. Some one picked this up, read it wrong and went on a rant about people who arn't military wearing medals, not what is being discussed at all.

For most service persons you are issued the full sized medals but do not wear them, one wears the ribbons on class "B" uniforms and minatures on the "Dress" uniform. So when do you wear them? The answer is well nowhere. This is utter BS.

If a Soldier or Vet is entitled to wear a medal (because orders were written awarding the medal to the person in question) then why not wear the full sized medals? Federal law trumps military regulations. Under current US Law Currently serving Military and Veterans may wear the uniform but the law does not specify what a uniform is or is not. The lack of definition of what is or is not a uniform is important. In addition a Veteran may under law wear either the current uniform but also his "historical" uniform. This trumps the military Regulations that forbid "old" uniforms. This is why you see WWI vets still dressed in Doughboy uniforms, they can, by law.

If the Soldier in question was on-duty then the Kansas ARNG Regulation KN-670-1 applies but off duty (when the ball will take place) then US Federal law applies and he is a "Veteran wearing his uniform to a military function" as provided for in law. Technially National Guardsmen can not wear their uniform off duty, that is the crime of "impersonating a federal official" as the NG uniform is exactly the same as the Regular Army's uniform. It is the Federal Law, not Kansas ARNG Regulations, that allow the wear of their uniforms off duty.

This is the oddball byplay between two seperate and distinct sets of Laws/Regs that do in fact contridict each other. This is not advice for Civillians just GI to GI.

As far as what is or is not a uniform, it is the buttons and the piping (cords on the edges) that define a uniform. So converting a military jacket to civillian means removing all the do-dads and changing the buttons, which is the oppisit of how the Army "militarized" a dinner jacket into a uniform.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

For most service persons you are issued the full sized medals but do not wear them, one wears the ribbons on class "B" uniforms and minatures on the "Dress" uniform. So when do you wear them? The answer is well nowhere.

This is utter BS.

WWI vets still dressed in Doughboy uniforms, they can, by law.

So when are full size medals worn?

Aside from being worn when presented, regardless of uniform, full size medals in the Army are worn on dress blues when so ordered. Admittedly these occasions are few and far between. But that's when Army regulations says they are to be worn.

The same regulations state that only miniature medals are to be worn on the mess uniform; either the "tropical" white mess jacket or the blue mess jacket. Both of these are separate items of uniform, distinct from "dress blues".

The customs of the service permit retired service personel to wear the uniform that conforms to the regulations in effect when they retired. So no one would have a beef with the two surviving WWI veterans wearing their old doughboy uniforms.

I'm not a JAG, nor a barracks room lawyer-- I was an S5 for most of my service-- so I'm not commenting on Federal Law vs. Army Regulations (which do have the force of Federal Law if I remember my UCMJ).

I respect your desire to wear your full size medals, and I commend you for your service to your country. By all means feel free to wear your full size medals where ever and when ever and how ever you want.

That said, most people, will adhere to the regulations.

(again appologies to all for going so far off topic)

[BonnieT100]

My big issue, being a Signal Officer, is why is the Signal Ball being held in Kansas and not at the home of the Signal Corp, Fort Gordon, GA?

I have only seen one person wearing full medals on his dress blues and it didn't look right at all. I considered wearing mine, but the top ones would obscure the bottom ones, and really, we're all so used to seeing the ribbons that no one would really recognize the actual medal, with the exception of the BSM, SS, or DSC. Besides, if you have an odd number of medals, it looks kind of funny. I'll have 7 by the time I get out of Iraq (hopefully my one from my 4 years in the 101st finally makes it through the system by then), and I think it would look unbalanced. The Army puts everything on the left side of the jacket, so the whole thing is lopsided as it is. Adding a bunch of medals would just increase the weight.

[Sir Robert]

There gets to be a time where it looks stupid to wear all of your medals/ribbons/regalia.

What I am suggesting is to display only the highest awards held and then only the full sized medals. It looks good.

The trick is to offset each row by 1/2 width. Take the uniform, lay it down then arrange the full sized medals by order of president upper left highest and look at it, it looks good. Which is my point.

[Cerebite]

With regard to when to wear what medal size or ribbon specifically Navy; I would be surprised if the other services are significantly different.

The first thing to consider is the "level" of the dress uniform which for the Navy can be either Blues or Whites [less formal and summer applications] and I would guess ground services would also have a green option.

Full Dress one wears full medals on the left and ribbons on the right.

Service Dress one wears the full "collection" as ribbons on the left side

Mess/ Dinner Dress one wears miniature medals and no ribbons.

In my experience very few "active" personnel have the Mess dress until they reach the senior paygrades [E7+, O4+] although the officers are more likely than the enlisted [I personnally do not yet own Mess Dress].

[citation: Navpers 15665

Just a note on "kids wearing medals they have not earned." With the ongoing two front war in Western and Central Asia some of those "kids" have earned those medals. I have a colleague at work who has a friend who was accosted for having a Purple Heart license plate on his car ["Where did you dad earn his purple heart" or "what are you doing driving dads car"]. The "kid" in question spent two tours in Iraq as a Navy medic with the Marines and EARNED that medal himself.

Someday I hope to be "together" enough to wear a Mess Dress Kilt to a Dinning Out

[berserkbishop]

I know that this thread is not really being discussed much anymore but I would just like all who contributed to know how interesting I found it. Aside from the heated content, the contributors knowledge on military uniforms are welcome to a new Seaman recruit who know NOTHING of military regs yet. This board is a wealth of knowledge. Thanks fellas!

BB