Please explain...

[ANGELMAN]

I Am New To Kilts, But I Was Drawn To Them As I Am Of Scottish Decent. I Like Them Because They Are Comfortable. For Me Personally I Like The Tartan Choices. I Prefer To Have Them With Family Connections. I Would Say I Am Drawn More To A Traditional Non Pocket Kilt, But In Today's World Pockets Are Almost A Must. I Think Basic Economics And The Law Of Supply And Demand Will Solve This. If There Is No Need The Item Becomes A Fad And Quickly Fades. If It Last There Is A Need And Group That Enjoy The Product. All Kilts W / Wo Pockets, Wool, Or Other Fabric, Solid Or Tartan Serve A Roll In Expanding Our Kilted Community.:d

[McFarkus]

I Am New To Kilts, But I Was Drawn To Them As I Am Of Scottish Decent. I Like Them Because They Are Comfortable. For Me Personally I Like The Tartan Choices. I Prefer To Have Them With Family Connections. I Would Say I Am Drawn More To A Traditional Non Pocket Kilt, But In Today's World Pockets Are Almost A Must. I Think Basic Economics And The Law Of Supply And Demand Will Solve This. If There Is No Need The Item Becomes A Fad And Quickly Fades. If It Last There Is A Need And Group That Enjoy The Product. All Kilts W / Wo Pockets, Wool, Or Other Fabric, Solid Or Tartan Serve A Roll In Expanding Our Kilted Community.:d

Currently all my kilts are tartan - one handsewn in Scotland and the other two are heavyweight Stillwater kilts. So, I'm fairly traditional. I did, however, just order a Stillwater economy kilt in Irish National tartan for St. Patrick's day. I won't be wearing it often, and it's washable. None of these have pockets, but, laddie, that's what a sporran is for (I own two Thorfinn sporrans).

On the other hand, I've been thinking about getting a contemporary model from Utilikilts, R-Kilts or Alphakilts. I really like the idea of the hemp kilt from R-Kilts. I don't see what the big fuss is about. No one would wear one of these kilts with an Argyll or Prince Charlie jacket to a formal event. We're talking about the difference between dress trousers (there, I said the T word) and blue jeans. What's the big deal?

[JamieKerr]

Just a quick thought on the topic of what is and is not a kilt...

A friend of mine had a hysterectomy. Another friend of mine had ovarian cancer and had to have her ovaries removed. Are these two individuals no longer women because they lack a characteristic of what it means to be a woman? I have waist length hair. Because our society thinks men should have short hair, does the fact I don't have short hair make me not male?

My point in posting that is to provide an example of defining what something is or isn't in a more relevant manner which more of us might understand.

I have five kilts. One is in my family's tartan, 3 are in military tartans, and one is a solid. In the pants world I own tight leather pants, I own pants that appear to be snake skin, courderoy, jeans, pin stripes, and any number of plain black dress pants. All of these items are pants. The only difference between them is which pair I would or would not wear in different settings.

I wear kilts for a number of reasons. Firstly, my grandfather was a Kerr. Wearing the kilt for me is a sign of respect and way of showing my relatives that family is important for me. I wear a kilt because its far more comfortable than pants. I wear the kilt because we as men need more choices than pants or pants in what we wish to wear. And lastly, simply because I want to.

[enyapj18]

As a personal choice, I don’t wear wool or leather. Companies like Utilikilts & Amerikilts give me options that don’t compromise my beliefs.

John

[Panache]

As a personal choice, I don’t wear wool or leather. Companies like Utilikilts & Amerikilts give me options that don’t compromise my beliefs.

John

(As an aside to enyapj18)

You should look into the Polyvicose offerings from Sport Kilt, USA Kilts as well as MacHummel's Canadian Casual Kilts (I do not mention Stillwater's acrylics because of the leather strap where Rocky or Pete could use either velcro or another colosure system). Freedom Kilts makes a custom solid color dress model and I'm sure that Steve would be willing to forgo leather straps for you.

To my knowledge there aren't any all man made options for sporrans (Stillwater's otherwise excellent NightStalker sporran is nylon but has leather tassles). However you could trying contacting turpin or A_Hay and see if they might be willing to try their hand with pleather.

There are always options out there.

Cheers

Jamie

[enyapj18]

Panache thanks for the info I'll check those kilt makers out.

I have found one all man made sporran from http://www.sporran-nation.co.uk/ for 135 pounds. Given the current exchange rates its a little more than I'm willing to spend.

Again thanks for the info.

John

[Panache]

Panache thanks for the info I'll check those kilt makers out.

I have found one all man made sporran from http://www.sporran-nation.co.uk/ for 135 pounds. Given the current exchange rates its a little more than I'm willing to spend.

Again thanks for the info.

John

Vinyl / pleather and faux fur are pretty inexpensive. I bet you could likely come up with a sporran that wouldn't set you back very much at all.

Search the DIY Forum and you should find several "How To" threads that will be of assistance.

Cheers

Jamie

[Makeitstop]

(I do not mention Stillwater's acrylics because of the leather strap where Rocky or Pete could use either velcro or another colosure system).

Just thought I'd mention that the stillwater thrifty uses velcro rather than leather straps.

[Chef]

I would argue with your definition of a kilt. You've taken a description of a kilt from an encyclopedia (one that is specifically about Scotland), and then added to it by describing some common features of traditional kilts, then declared those to be the criteria which determine whether or not a garment is a kilt. So yes, this is your definition of a kilt. And it is inherently flawed (at least, for the purposes of this discussion) because you defined a kilt with a description of a traditional kilt, and then said if it doesn't meet the definition, it isn't a kilt. You're defining kilts as being traditional kilts, then saying that non-traditional kilts aren't kilts, and pointing to your definition as evidence. It's a little circular, don't you think?

So, let's just check a dictionary for a definition. From websters:

1 : a knee-length pleated skirt usually of tartan worn by men in Scotland and by Scottish regiments in the British armies
2 : a garment that resembles a Scottish kilt

If you don't like that one, here's a whole bunch to choose from

I think this is a bit more usable as a definition. A pleated knee-length manskirt. Works for me.

Interesting you take MacMillan to task for using a source that basically agrees with the citation from Websters as well as the citations you linked to. Then make up a definition all your own which has no citation or basis in fact.

This is a perfectly good definition, as far as it goes, but some kilts, as mentioned earlier, are not made from tartan cloth, and there are skirts made from tartan cloth that are not kilts. Utilikilts on the other hand are pleated at the back, but are not made from tartan cloth. So how do we decide whether or not they're "descended from the wollen plaid worn by the highlanders from early times"? The only way I can see is to enumerate the characteristics of a kilt, and see how they differ from other forms of dress. That way, we'll be able to tell if a garment has the proper characteristics to count as a kilt.

Well the way we know it didn't descend from the woollen plaid is the inventor specifically said it didn't. It descended from cargo shorts. You can check their website. For practical reasons it has some features that are similar to a kilt but that is it. Pick-up trucks and coupes have many similar features but no confuses them.

So if it didn't descend from the plaid why did the inventor call it a Utilikilt? Because it is obvious from the angry reactions, everytime someone says a Utilikilt is not a real kilt, that you wouldn't wear it if it was called a "Utiliskirt" or a "UtiliMUG".

Just a quick thought on the topic of what is and is not a kilt...

A friend of mine had a hysterectomy. Another friend of mine had ovarian cancer and had to have her ovaries removed. Are these two individuals no longer women because they lack a characteristic of what it means to be a woman?

Sorry, but to even suggest this is analogous is a bit offensive.

[JakobT]

Well the way we know it didn't descend from the woollen plaid is the inventor specifically said it didn't. It descended from cargo shorts. You can check their website. For practical reasons it has some features that are similar to a kilt but that is it. Pick-up trucks and coupes have many similar features but no confuses them.

I believe what the inventor actually said is that he made up the first Utilikilt from a pair of cargo shorts. This, however, is neither here nor there. After the WWII a lot of wedding dresses were made from silk reclaimed from parachutes. Does this mean they weren't wedding dresses? Of course not.