"A Different Perspective"

[TatterDel]

As indicated on the thread "Mad as Hell" which has now been resolved:

There seemed to be a general agreement that women are difficult to understand... and that people in general are difficult to understand.

My husband is always saying that I should 'seek first to understand..."

That is true not only as a wife and mother but as a female scout leader. It was in an attempt to seek that knowledge that I read an amazing book called "Wild at Heart" by John Eldredge. It has helped me, the forth of four girls, to understand men and boys much better. I used to say "don't do..." "you should..." and a number of other things I had heard my mother say to me growing up. Now (unless it's a safety issue or against BSA policy) I turn to the adult next to me and say, "watch what happens.." or "wait, just listen, they will work it out".

There's a second book that John Eldredge wrote with his wife called "Captivating". Now when I first started reading it, I was upset about all the things it said about women. I put the book down and refused to continue. Then one day I was ordering the CDs for 'Wild at Heart' and they offered the CDs of both books at a better price... so being thrifty I bought it. Being thrift and not wanting to waist my new purchase I started listening to them.

It's amazing! When I heard the authors voices say the things that I had read... now with voice inflections and emotion... I understood that they were not being insulting. I had misunderstood them.

How often do we misunderstand people via e-mail, text, letters...

I think if you get the books on tape or CDs it will help you to understand why we react to people and out environment the way we do. It is about how we are designed by the creator. You may not agree hat there is a God or that he made us the way the Eldredges describe, but you will come away with a new perspective. And isn't that part of "Seeking first to understand..."

There is a world of difference between 'kilt' and 'skirt' and it is usually in the understanding or misunderstanding of it all.

My understanding has had to change about a lot of things over the 42 years of my life (most of which has come in the past decade). My morals, my ideals, my creed... as grew in faith, I grew as a person. I'm no 'Bible thumper', but I do try to seek out what it says so that I may better understand why so many misunderstand it's words and meaning. Why others choose to dismiss it, and why some manage live in peace and understanding of the world around them because of it.

I am still just clay in the potters hands but he has already given me a foundation upon which to rest. I'm a work in progress and I can't wait to see what he makes of me. Every time I try to shape myself he makes me look at myself from a new perspective. Then I give myself back to him, he fixes my mistakes and continues to shape me in his likeness.

I am new to this forum. Thank you for your time.

[JamieKerr]

I used to say "don't do..." "you should..." and a number of other things I had heard my mother say to me growing up. Now (unless it's a safety issue or against BSA policy) I turn to the adult next to me and say, "watch what happens.." or "wait, just listen, they will work it out".

And isn't that part of "Seeking first to understand..."

There is a world of difference between 'kilt' and 'skirt' and it is usually in the understanding or misunderstanding of it all.

I just chose to highlight a few aspects of what you said, because are the parts that made me nod in agreement. I'm a social worker, and a huge fan of motivational interviewing. For those who don't know what that is, let me give a lil info. Say I'm at a treatment facility working with people who are dependent on alcohol. We're all familiar with the "how many more dui's will it take for you to understand that you have a problem? What else has to happen for you to GET it?" That approach of beating someone over the head with the "I know better than you, LISTEN TO ME!" does not work, period. Firstly, it is insulting to the other person. Secondly, it is not listening to what the other person has to say. MI is a non judgmental way of helping a person to see the pros and cons of their behavior, and then help facilitate the changes THEY want to make. Additionally, sometimes you just have to let people work things out for themselves. Seeking to understand falls into this as well. You may not like the way a person does something. But there may be a very good reason for the way they are doing it. Trying to understand the logic behind the action helps you to understand why they may be so violently defending themselves, and why they are so resistant to change.

As for the world of different between a kilt and a skirt. Again, I have to draw on my experiences as a social worker. I've spent time working with many HIV AIDS clients. Asking a person their sexual orientation and then drawing conclusions about behaviors they do or do not engage in is a huuuuuuge mistake. Different cultures define "gay" very very differently. Someone who may obviously be gay in one culture may not be considered to be in another. While a particular action or behavior might look exactly the same in two cultures, it doesn't have to BE the same in two cultures.

Anyway. This week it seems like people have been doing nothing but arguing amongst themselves on this board. We have enough people being critical of our dress without turning on ourselves as well. We all are very different, and we all wear the kilt or pseudo kilt or whatever you want to call it for different reasons. Let us not forget that fact. Let us also not forget that the kilt is very important to all of us for one reason or another. So often I hear others saying "I understand why you do this, but this is why you're wrong." That, to me, does not show understanding at all. That shows that you simply heard what was said but did not process it.

[cavscout]

Good job, and welcome to the neighborhood

[Arlen]

You know, in the last few years I've had a lot of lessons in how men and women, in general, think differently.
My wife is a psychologist/PSR worker and she's had a good bit of training in how to communicate and how people express themselves.
I, however, have not. And, believe me, there is nothing that will make you feel more juvenile and useless than having your partner be educated in how to communicate while you fumble your words and try desperately to explain yourself.
After being together for 3 1/2 years and having known each other for 5 years I am JUST beginning to understand that she thinks in a completely different way from me. To grasp why certain fights happen or why either one of us reacts in a given way.

Of course women are hard for men to understand and vice versa. I mean, the brain chemistry is completely different. Heck, part of a man's brain pretty much dissolves during puberty and women get to keep theirs!
The fact is, though, it doesn't mean that either side is irrational or difficult.

So yes, you hit the nail on the head. Seek to understand. Take a minute and try to shift your viewpoint.
It's never easy, but I'm starting to see that it works.

[TatterDel]

After being together for 3 1/2 years and having known each other for 5 years I am JUST beginning to understand that she thinks in a completely different way from me.
So yes, you hit the nail on the head. Seek to understand. .

Arlen, Congratulation! You have reach a point of maturity in understanding and in your marriage that has taken me 21 years to get to. Yes, I'm sure my beloved has been saying the same thing for the past 21+ years but I just truly listened to it yesterday! "Seek first to understand, before you seek to be understood".

[TatterDel]

Maybe we should make this the motto of our new Venture Crew.

We may have to have caberdancer.com creat our crew banner...
I just saw their site as I was checking out the sponsors. Yes we do really look at them.

When I find the exact quote maybe someone could help us translate it into Gaelic (and learn how to pronounce it).

Of course Latin might be easier.

(how was that for use of smilies?)

[JamieKerr]

You know. I've been looking for a new tattoo to go around a previous one I have. "Seek first to understand" in Gaelic would just be awesome. Somebody absolutely must translate that, or I swear I will pout. I'm not kidding.

[Pleater]

I'm afraid I have taken an opposite approach - I simply decided that trying to understand people, what they do and why is beyond my intuition, and would take far too long to fathom out - if I could do it, so I don't.

I'd far rather get a surprise now and then than watch the world knowing what people are up to.

It is a philosophy of spontaneity.

I never finish anyone's sentences, and only act to pre empt situations where I sense danger.

It is rather like watching myself looking at myself thinking, sometimes, so it is rather strange, when I think about it.

That is thinking about myself watching me looking at myself thinking.

Not that I do that very often. Most of the time I just watch the world go by.

It's like having a metaphysical lounger for the mind.

[Alaskan Kilted Guy]

Very interesting thread. I train foster parents and youth counselors that work with severely emotionally disturbed children. One thing I stress to folks is that communication is (borrowed from Father Michael Oleksa) "Always approximate, and never exact." I think this is important to acknowledge, and be very open to actively pursue effective communication. That is, coming as close to what someone intended to communicate. So much strife and misunderstanding could be avoided if we could just learn to better communicate........

[TatterDel]

That is thinking about myself watching me looking at myself thinking.

Not that I do that very often. Most of the time I just watch the world go by.

It's like having a metaphysical lounger for the mind.

It called "Wee Dram". All things in moderation you know...

Just kidding I think we all have our moments or times when we need to 'zone out' or "go deep within ourselves' the trick is balancing those moments with the attentive and active ones. I'm a mother with a Senior (12th grade) and a freshman (9th grade) in high school. I don't get very many deep contemplative times but when I do it's like turning off the mute button, I can hear all of the things that have been running through my thoughts and I'm able to focus on them.
My brain is no longer focused on the everyday, it is allowed to explore, contemplate and dream.

When I was little my sister though I was autistic and my mother thought I hard of hearing because I could tune everything out around me and focus on my own thoughts, a book, a TV... anything to escape the world I was really in which I found boring and uneventful.

Perhaps that is why I seek to fill my life and my surroundings with so much excitement, activities, and people!