Battle of Bannockburn

[macwilkin]

Sometimes,just sometimes,I wish we would forget Bannockburn and get on with the battles of today.History is important,I know,but ..............

You're making this history teacher cry, Jock.

T.

[Jock Scot]

You're making this history teacher cry, Jock.

T.

I am sorry to upset you Todd and history is very important and The Battle of Bannockburn was a milestone victory for the Scots, to what end though?Four centuries of murder, mayhem,double dealing ,religeous intolerance, general skulduggery and self(not national)interest by the Scots followed.Even when a Hannoverian led British army finaly sorted all that out in 1746 with, to say the least, very dubious methods, did the Scots stop the cruelty?No way! To add insult to greivous injury, some,I repeat, some Scots had a hand in making their countrymens plight more grim by being involved in the clearances.Then the Scots have the gall to blame the English,or anybody else, for their mainly self inflicted woes and misdeeds .We are at least, now, some 700 years after the famous Scots victory, all trying to get this wonderful country to have some respect.Sorry to harp on,but lets leave the rose tinted glasses off and by recognising our failings we will,perhaps, be more united than we have ever been.

[macwilkin]

I am sorry to upset you Todd and history is very important and The Battle of Bannockburn was a milestone victory for the Scots, to what end though?Four centuries of murder, mayhem,double dealing ,religeous intolerance and general skulduggery by the Scots followed.Even when a Hannoverian led British army finaly sorted all that out in 1746 with, to say the least, very dubious methods, did the Scots stop the cruelty?No way! To add insult to greivous injury, some,I repeat, some Scots had a hand in making their countrymens plight more grim by being involved in the clearances.Then the Scots have the gall to blame the English,or anybody else, for their mainly self inflicted woes and misdeeds .We are at least, now, some 700 years after the famous Scots victory, all trying to get this wonderful country to have some respect.Sorry to harp on,but lets leave the rose tinted glasses off and by recognising our failings we will,perhaps, be more united than we have ever been.

Jock,

You've just proved my point by using history as your example.

We shouldn't forget the past, we should learn from it.

T.

[Jock Scot]

Jock,

You've just proved my point by using history as your example.

We shouldn't forget the past, we should learn from it.

T.

The trouble is that we SHOULD all learn from it,but if history is learnt from the back of a biscuit tin and perhaps well meant misinformation then you history teachers might as well talk to yourselves.I really don't mean to be rude,I do apologise, but a battle won does not mean that the war is won and lessons have been learned by the majority. I wish it were so, as you undoubtedly do. As you can see rose tinted history does not impress me one bit! Bannockburn was a Scots victory over the English,of that there is no doubt.There is also no doubt that it was no victory for Scotland in the short,medium and long term and the Scots were,largely betrayed by their own countrymen.I see little to celibrate today.

[macwilkin]

The trouble is that we SHOULD all learn from it,but if history is learnt from the back of a biscuit tin and perhaps well meant misinformation then you history teachers might as well talk to yourselves.I really don't mean to be rude,I do apologise, but a battle won does not mean that the war is won and lessons have been learned by the majority. I wish it were so, as you undoubtedly do. As you can see rose tinted history does not impress me one bit! Bannockburn was a Scots victory over the English,of that there is no doubt.There is also no doubt that it was no victory for Scotland in the short,medium and long term and the Scots were,largely betrayed by their own countrymen.I see little to celibrate today.

Sorry, Jock, but I have to disagree wi' you; the bravery of the Scottish soldiers engaged on the field should always be celebrated -- and for that matter, the English as well.

Remember, I worked for a number of years at an American Civil War Battlefield -- if you want to talk about "rose-coloured glasses", I dealt with it on a daily basis.

But, the reason I went to work every day was the memory of 537 Americans who gave their lives on 10 August 1861. There was no blue or grey, but blood red that day. Now, only the prairie grass blows where armies stood.

The Lakota have a saying, "A people without history are like the wind in the buffalo grass."

Todd

[James MacMillan]

Please don't take offense Tod - BUT!

It is often said that those who don't learn from their mistakes are apt to repeat them..... or some such corruption. As one who has been interested in "History" for my entire life, what irks me is that one man's history is not another's!

Some say that history is written by the victor, but even that isn't true any more. Virtually every tome on "History" is written with some personal agenda of the author.

Take the Viet Nam War, for instance. We now have many definitive histories written to tell us just what happened, and I have yet to read one that accurately reflects what really happened there, as reflected from personal knowledge and from the perspective of my own two eyes and my own two ears. What I experienced is not what is in the current crop of "History" books.

Sadly, in my opinion, this is true of all things as regards "History." The spin-doctors always seem to write about things as they want them to be, not as they are or were.

Actual experience is very often, if not most times, very different from what is finally written in a book. Learning from books is great thing, BUT it is NOT as good as your own life experiences!

OK – Rant over!

[Panache]

The leaf gathers the golden rays of the sun but knows nothing of the earth

The roots probe the deep dark soil and drink the water but know nothing of the sky

The Bark feels the heat and cold and shields the tree but is blind to all else

None of the parts see or knows the whole tree


Good Historians try to look from many perspectives and many vantage points to to see the totality of an event. When dealing with a huge experience, one that involves multiple viewpoints and many many people being able to look through all those different eyes to try to see things as a whole is of great value.

Books like a "A Day of Infamy" and "The Longest Day" illustrate this.

Respectfully

Jamie

[Freelancer]

The leaf gathers the golden rays of the sun but knows nothing of the earth

The roots probe the deep dark soil and drink the water but know nothing of the sky

The Bark feels the heat and cold and shields the tree but is blind to all else

None of the parts see or knows the whole tree


Good Historians try to look from many perspectives and many vantage points to to see the totality of an event. When dealing with a huge experience, one that involves multiple viewpoints and many many people being able to look through all those different eyes to try to see things as a whole is of great value.

Books like a "A Day of Infamy" and "The Longest Day" illustrate this.

Respectfully

Jamie

Well done....you've really summed it up...and quite beautifully (who authored that?)! Both views, cynical or romantic or any other, all speak to or add to a truth in some way