nothing to be proud of, but first kilted scuffle

[gilmore]

You responded appropriately. You stayed calm and in control, and you used just enough force to get the point across.

...

Where did you go to law school?

Sorry, but on the facts given, our friend could easily be found guilty of battery, if they were established in court.

Force can be used only to resist an attack on one's own or another's person. There must be impending peril of unlawful force without convenient or reasonable mode of escape, and there must be a reasonable belief of immediate danger.

According to the facts set out, there was no threat of immediate physical danger, nor was leaving the scene at all impossible.

Further, only as much force as is reasonably required may be lawfully used. E.g., the use of deadly force against non-deadly force does not constitute a defense of self defense. In other words I doubt that neither the mere tugging of a sporran belt ---having already been done---nor even the threat of one's sporran belt being tugged again (which was not in the facts given), would legally justify knocking some one to the ground.

[Spc. Scott]

Where did you go to law school?

Sorry, but on the facts given, our friend could easily be found guilty of battery, if they were established in court.

Force can be used only to resist an attack on one's own or another's person. There must be impending peril of unlawful force without convenient or reasonable mode of escape, and there must be a reasonable belief of immediate danger.

According to the facts set out, there was no threat of immediate physical danger, nor was leaving the scene at all impossible.

Further, only as much force as is reasonably required may be lawfully used. E.g., the use of deadly force against non-deadly force does not constitute a defense of self defense. In other words I doubt that neither the mere tugging of a sporran belt ---having already been done---nor even the threat of one's sporran belt being tugged again (which was not in the facts given), would legally justify knocking some one to the ground.

Probably true. It's too bad this "misguided scrapper" can't just see the err of his ways. Maybe pour himself a bowl of Cheerios and find a nice spoonful of "open mind" in it. Or perhaps a slice of toast with a bite of "ego deflater" in it.

But on the other hand, there have been a couple of people that I have come across that I just couldn't really get along with till we had a little dust up. After that we became fairly good friends.

[drobin]

DISCLAIMER: I practice krav maga.

That guy was lucky, and probably has no clue what could have happened to him. Krav maga isn't a 'soft' style. Heres hoping everything works out well.

[LANCER1562]

Gentlemen;
I'm not a lawyer or even a law student, however, I have recieved formal instruction from an acredited police acadamy and my training dictates that when a person touches you in an unwarrented fashion it's concidered an attack and self defence is justified.
My instructors drumed into us "USE ONLY THAT AMOUNT OF FORCE NECESSARY TO CONTROL THE SITUATION". Which it sounds like Hector did. Also, Hector recognised one of his antagonist from a previous encounter at that same pharmacy and this time he brought a friend. Probably the only he'd have a full set of b***s. Certainly not a whole brain between them.
I also agree that a police report should be on file just in case.
Hector, as we say in my profession, watch your six (your back). Preditors often travel in packs.

[hospitaller]

Gilmore,

I REALLY do not want to turn this thread into legalese or a debate on who went to law school or not, please.

At least in the State I live in, any physical contact that is intentional, coming from a stranger and that can be perceived as menacing consitutes battery, and as such we're allowed to defend ourselves using reasonable force.

The guy was lucky he was only tugging my sporran strap, because had he tried to actually grab me or hold me, then instead of simply being pushed to the ground he'd eaten a salad of elbows, knees and THEN the ground.

Shoving a known bully to the ground, specially after he initiated physical contact in a way that was obviously menacing is, and always will be in my book, self defense.

I'd equate it to a man grabbing a woman's purse and then the woman slaps or punches the guy to let her go. Anybody knows that is self defense.

So, me shoving the dumbarse to the ground for him to let go of me is, well, self defense and more than justified.

Demolay,

thanks for the advice and yes, I'm on the lookout now for this guy and his buddy. I've phones the detective I know about the incident and this guy (I know where he lives from my first encounter with him).
Turns out he is known by the local cops, so far he hasnt done anything major, no arrests, but he has been cited and ticketed before for noise violations, public nuissance and other minor offenses like that.
So I guess the checkout girl was right, he's just the local 'tough guy' so I dont expect him to graduate from local bully to a fellon.
By the way, he also confirmed that my reaction was more than justified and appropriate.

Moderators,

as I feel the conversation has been good and in order to avoid deviations, could you close this thread? Thanks!

slainte!

[Panache]

Thread closed per Hector's request.

Cheers

Jamie