Ghillie brogues, yes or no?

[DWFII]

They were posted to give two examples of dress shoes worn with the kilt. The pictures are artists impressions and don't show any detailing on the shoes so whether or not they are brogues I can't tell. What they all do have in common, however, is buckles, whether they are slip-on type like your penny-loafers or strap and buckle they are a traditional type of men's dress shoe in common usage before the advent of ghillie brogues.

I understand and I was just making sure that there was a distinction drawn and that for the purpose of communication we were on the same page.

However, the buckle shoes I am referring to (and as depicted in your third illustration) are not penny loafers and are not made like penny loafer (although the Glenfinnians may indeed be penny loafers "underneath the skin," now that I think about it). This is important not only with regard to how they fit but it is also important to note that when they are made in a more traditional manner the buckle is not just ornamental, it is fully functional.

And, contrary to what you say that they have "a big honking buckle right over the ball of the foot" the buckle is actually forward of where the shoe bends when worn which is the open part between the strap and the buckle.

I have a hard time coming to terms with that statement because the "normal" foot bends...needs to bend...from the "treadline" (ball joint) forward at least two inches (depending on size). This is my business of over 35 years...you'll be hard pressed to convince me yours are that much different.

So unless the buckle on the buckle brogues (I'll leave off calling them Mary Janes if it bothers you) is right at the very end of the shoe (the last one inch or so), or the shoe is very loose over the joint area, you still have a rigidness there where no rigidness should be.

Do some deep knee bends in them or bend over to kneel on the floor with the sole still touching the floor under your toe and see how they feel. Like I mentioned in another post, at one time there were numerous shoe styles that were intentionally made for display only--undue exertion was not anticipated. Maybe a long Viennese Waltz or a quickstep in buckle brogues would illustrate the problem a little more effectively.

As for sexual stereotyping...weel, laddie I think everyone on this forum would attach some sort of gender reference to what is or is not men's clothing. For instance, it has been said a great many times--ad infinitum, ad nauseum--that the kilt is an article of men's clothing. I don't think it implies any sort of hang up to be consistent in that perspective.