Ghillie brogues, yes or no?

[Scotus]

I don't like the gillie brogues, because they seem to be costumy. By this, I mean they have parts to them that are just for show and serve no real purpose (the lacings).

I have found the continued reference to not liking ghillie brogues because they're too "costumy," or too "costume like," to be interesting. It's okay to wear a kilt in America, thousands of miles away from Scotland, and that's not costumy; however, you put a few extra laces on a shoe, and that crosses some mythical line into costume? I must confess, I really don't get that. For example, what, pray tell, is the real purpose of tartan in a society that doesn't know the difference between a MacDonald or a Campbell, a Douglas or a Graham? There isn't a "purpose," other than the fact that we like the various tartans because they're colorful, they're traditional, they help bring a sense of belonging to a clan, or they are reminders of a district we love; however, to people who don't know about the kilt, it's "costumy." I could say the same thing about clan badges, kilt jackets, or anything else one might associate with traditional Scottish attire.

BTW, I do respect those who don't like them as a matter of style or taste and give their honest reasons, even if I don't agree. I understand that, as there are some modern things in the kilt world that I detest, but certainly, ghillie brogues are quite traditional and proper to wear with the kilt. If you don't like them, fine, but a costume? No.

[JRB]

I have found the continued reference to not liking ghillie brogues because they're too "costumy," or too "costume like," to be interesting. It's okay to wear a kilt in America, thousands of miles away from Scotland, and that's not costumy; however, you put a few extra laces on a shoe, and that crosses some mythical line into costume? I must confess, I really don't get that. For example, what, pray tell, is the real purpose of tartan in a society that doesn't know the difference between a MacDonald or a Campbell, a Douglas or a Graham? There isn't a "purpose," other than the fact that we like the various tartans because they're colorful, they're traditional, they help bring a sense of belonging to a clan, or they are reminders of a district we love; however, to people who don't know about the kilt, it's "costumy." I could say the same thing about clan badges, kilt jackets, or anything else one might associate with traditional Scottish attire.

BTW, I do respect those who don't like them as a matter of style or taste and give their honest reasons, even if I don't agree. I understand that, as there are some modern things in the kilt world that I detest, but certainly, ghillie brogues are quite traditional and proper to wear with the kilt. If you don't like them, fine, but a costume? No.

Alright, I'll change my opinion of Ghilli brogues from too "costumey" to too Brigadoonish (or Brigadoony, if you will). I feel the same way about jacobite shirts and wearing a pipers dirk or baskethilt. All traditional. All not to my liking.

[Panache]

Alright, I'll change my opinion of Ghilli brogues from too "costumey" to too Brigadoonish (or Brigadoony, if you will). I feel the same way about jacobite shirts and wearing a pipers dirk or basket hilt. All traditional. All not to my liking.

I personally think that under most circumstances, the dirk and basket hilt sword are far too much...

...but under the right circumstances (like Bob C. dramatically opening a bottle of champagne ) they might have their place.

Jacobite/ghillie/highlander shirts might be a bit costume-like for most occasions...

...but they work very well for Scottish Country Dance!

As for ghillie brogues, they may be old fashioned, but I think that costume-like is a bit harsh (sorry dear wife!)

FYI: I think that the jacobite/ghillie/highlander shirt is a fairly recent invention while lace up ghillie shoes actually harken back to traditional Highland wear.

I have never been all that fond of them but perhaps they are worth a second look.

Some traditions are well worth keeping alive.

Cheers

Jamie

[JRB]

...under most circumstances, the dirk and basket hilt sword are far too much...but under the right circumstances (like Bob C. dramatically opening a bottle of champagne ) they might have their place.

Agreed. I feel that the dirk and baskethilt certainly have their place. I own both a custom dirk and custom baskethilted broadsword. I will also occasionally wear them with my belted plaid. I'm just not a fan of the dirk and sword being worn by a visitor to a Scottish games. It looks out of place to my eyes.

Some traditions are well worth keeping alive.

Again, I totally agree. I actually appreciate that ghilli brigues are still being worn by certain people. It's just that I don't happen to be the type of person who would wear them. I have a certain style (as does everyone else) and ghilli brogues, jacobite shirts, and big, reproduction cutlery just don't fit that style.

[ThistleDown]

Alright, I'll change my opinion of Ghilli brogues from too "costumey" to too Brigadoonish (or Brigadoony, if you will). I feel the same way about jacobite shirts and wearing a pipers dirk or baskethilt. All traditional. All not to my liking.

Perhaps we are branching out from the original thread? If that's where this is going, we need to be cautious and recognise that we are talking about many quite different societies in this forum. In Western Canada you will see ghillie brogues often in the evening and bonnets, sometimes, during the day -- quite acceptable; never, never will you see dirks, claymores, broadswords or pheasant feathers -- they are not "traditional" there. In Scotland you wiill see ghillie brogues about as frequently in the evening, but rarely a bonnet during the day (except by those who are rightfully wearing eagle feathers), and never, never any edged thingme except an ornamental sgian dubh.

Scotus is quite right. What is seen as "costumey" or, if you will, "Brigadooney" in both places is anything that is a deliberate attempt to dress in another era. Ghillie brogues don't fall into that category even though they are something of a throwback themelves. Everyone to his own, of course, but we do need to recognise that what is traditional, or "costumey", in one place may not be traditional or "Brigadooney" in another.

[Scotus]

Ghillie brogues don't fall into that category even though they are something of a throwback themelves. Everyone to his own, of course, but we do need to recognise that what is traditional, or "costumey", in one place may not be traditional or "Brigadooney" in another.

Thank you, ThistleDown. This is the point I was trying to make, in spite of JRB's less than mature response to my post. I realize what some are trying to say about ghillie brogues, but they are wrong to say they are costume-like, since they're a part of modern Scottish attire.

As Jamie correctly pointed out, the so-called kilt shirt is a modern invention, not a traditional part of Scottish attire, the view point I come from. However, this is a thread about ghillie brogues, so I'm not adressing the so-called kilt/Jacobite shirts, dirks, or anything else one might see being worn.

too Brigadoonish (or Brigadoony, if you will)

P.S. The proper term is "Brigadoonery."

[Jock Scot]

Just an observation! Since this thread has been going I have had occasion to don my kilt and attend one or two daytime functions in the Western Highlands and it seems to me that the ghillie brogue is being worn more often, these days, as day attire. The people wearing them are locals and many have lived in the area for all their lives----not incommers ---so they know a thing or two about wearing the kilt.It is a growing trend I fear.

[Scotus]

The people wearing them are locals and many have lived in the area for all their lives----not incommers ---so they know a thing or two about wearing the kilt.

Thanks for that post. This is why I keep repeating that it's a part of modern Scottish attire; not something people are wearing in order to look like something from a period movie.

[JerseyLawyer]

Just an observation! Since this thread has been going I have had occasion to don my kilt and attend one or two daytime functions in the Western Highlands and it seems to me that the ghillie brogue is being worn more often, these days, as day attire. The people wearing them are locals and many have lived in the area for all their lives----not incommers ---so they know a thing or two about wearing the kilt.It is a growing trend I fear.

I also wonder, aesthetics aside, if it might have something to do with ghillie brogues being both more available and less costly than they were in the past.

When I bought my first pair, lo those fourteen or fifteen years ago, you had to go to a kilt store to buy this stuff, and the shoes cost, in the early 90's, $150 a pair or something like that. For rather uncomfortable, leather-soled ghillies. When you consider that you can get a pretty good pair of dress shoes for that money, and not be limited to wearing them with the kilt, the investment in special "kilt shoes" doesn't make sense.

Now, there are tons and tons of manufacturers out there and, starting with the "Doc Marten" style ghillies and now the "Piper" ghillies, there are brogues that are designed for more wearability. (I personally think that dress shoes should have leather soles, but, that's not really the point.). I'm pretty sure you can get a pair similar to what I got back in the day for $50 or so.

Not as expensive and more easily available might lead to more people wearing ghillies than in the past.

Just conjecture, though.

[Jock Scot]

I also wonder, aesthetics aside, if it might have something to do with ghillie brogues being both more available and less costly than they were in the past.

When I bought my first pair, lo those fourteen or fifteen years ago, you had to go to a kilt store to buy this stuff, and the shoes cost, in the early 90's, $150 a pair or something like that. For rather uncomfortable, leather-soled ghillies. When you consider that you can get a pretty good pair of dress shoes for that money, and not be limited to wearing them with the kilt, the investment in special "kilt shoes" doesn't make sense.

Now, there are tons and tons of manufacturers out there and, starting with the "Doc Marten" style ghillies and now the "Piper" ghillies, there are brogues that are designed for more wearability. (I personally think that dress shoes should have leather soles, but, that's not really the point.). I'm pretty sure you can get a pair similar to what I got back in the day for $50 or so.

Not as expensive and more easily available might lead to more people wearing ghillies than in the past.

Just conjecture, though.

Do you know,I was thinking along the very same lines. When I find some one wearing ghillies at the next function,that I know well enough to ask, I will.