"LONG JOHNS" with a KILT ????

[Lachlan07]

Hi there.

Trade secret coming up ! My Great Uncle David Robertson (S/9365) served as L/Cpl with the 8th Batt Black Watch, 9th Scottish Div in the Great War. At home we still have his YMCA letter from the Western Front, sent home to his parents in Musselburgh, Midlothian dated December 1915. Apart from family questions home, Dave mentioned in the one-page letter that he was stationed in a sap (a cul-de-sac length of trench dug out from the main trench into No-Man's Land as a listening-post). He mentioned the intense, bitter cold, being stationary, cold and damp in a trench in mid-winter for days at a time. He then asked his mother to send over his old gardening trousers, so he could cut them off at the knees to wear under his kilt !

In fact, an order of 1916 ordered Highland battalions to wear standard British khaki issue long trousers and puttees during the coldest part of winter. Various photos show Highlanders in trousers in winter. (Apart from that, of course, transport personnel of Highland regiments always wore trousers.)

Great Uncle Dave didn't have to suffer every winter like that. He was killed on the first day of the Third Battle of The Scarpe/Arras, on 3rd May 1917, when his battalion and division took their turn to assault the Chemical Works at Roeux. He has no known grave, but is mentioned on Panel 6 of the Arras Memorial.

[turpin]

I say "man up" and wear the kilt like you're supposed to. Admittedly, sometimes when I'm outside in a kilt and it's below freezing (like, 50 or 60 below freezing) I'll pull the rolled-down part of my hose up until I get inside...but only when it's really cold.

I agree with Greg here. Unless you plan to spend all day outdoors at a low level of exertion (like the Great Uncle above in a WWI trench), the kilt, warm hos, and good trunk and head coverings should be more than sufficient. I walked about 2 miles at nite in Park City Utah, 8 degrees, calm air, and just got chilly at the knees. If you are in and out of stores, restaurants, etc. you should be fine. wort comes to worst, undies for the package and pull up the hose.

[BoldHighlander]

I agree with Greg here. Unless you plan to spend all day outdoors at a low level of exertion (like the Great Uncle above in a WWI trench), the kilt, warm hos, and good trunk and head coverings should be more than sufficient. I walked about 2 miles at nite in Park City Utah, 8 degrees, calm air, and just got chilly at the knees. If you are in and out of stores, restaurants, etc. you should be fine. wort comes to worst, undies for the package and pull up the hose.

I know where Puffer's friend is heading, up into the Cascade Mountains, to a festival that is held out doors (& it is a low level exertion event). It's easy to say "Man up" but if your not use to wearing a kilt in the conditions offered up this time of year in our mountains, then I don't blame the gentleman for the desire to have some extra protection.

[McMurdo]

I know where Puffer's friend is heading, up into the Cascade Mountains, to a festival that is held out doors (& it is a low level exertion event). It's easy to say "Man up" but if your not use to wearing a kilt in the conditions offered up this time of year in our mountains, then I don't blame the gentleman for the desire to have some extra protection.

If the conditions are that bad, then I say dress for them, and leave the kilt at home, however if the gent in question is set on wearing the kilt then he should wear it without long johns underneath.

[BoldHighlander]

If the conditions are that bad, then I say dress for them, and leave the kilt at home, however if the gent in question is set on wearing the kilt then he should wear it without long johns underneath.

I'm not saying wear them with long johns, there are other options provided (as I provided earlier), *but* I also think folks need to give a newbie a break. At least he's making an effort.

[McMurdo]

I'm not saying wear them with long johns, there are other options provided (as I provided earlier), *but* I also think folks need to give a newbie a break. At least he's making an effort.

I respectfully disagree, here is why. I started wearing the kilt as a reflection of my heritage, therefore I went to lengths to ensure that I was indeed wearing it properly. The attitude of "ive the newbie a break"does not work because if you do then you get all sorts of things that someone calls a kilt, giving the newbie a break does him a dis-service, however educating him on the proper way to wear a kilt will not steer him wrong.

[BoldHighlander]

I respectfully disagree, here is why. I started wearing the kilt as a reflection of my heritage, therefore I went to lengths to ensure that I was indeed wearing it properly. The attitude of "ive the newbie a break"does not work because if you do then you get all sorts of things that someone calls a kilt, giving the newbie a break does him a dis-service, however educating him on the proper way to wear a kilt will not steer him wrong.

Ahh, but here is the rub (& has been discussed else where before) what is "proper"?
With under wear or without?
That really is what we are talking about here (at least I am ) & I am *NOT* advocating long johns under the kilt (see my earlier post -- #9 -- on this thread).

[BoldHighlander]

Hi there.

Trade secret coming up ! My Great Uncle David Robertson (S/9365) served as L/Cpl with the 8th Batt Black Watch, 9th Scottish Div in the Great War. At home we still have his YMCA letter from the Western Front, sent home to his parents in Musselburgh, Midlothian dated December 1915. Apart from family questions home, Dave mentioned in the one-page letter that he was stationed in a sap (a cul-de-sac length of trench dug out from the main trench into No-Man's Land as a listening-post). He mentioned the intense, bitter cold, being stationary, cold and damp in a trench in mid-winter for days at a time. He then asked his mother to send over his old gardening trousers, so he could cut them off at the knees to wear under his kilt !

In fact, an order of 1916 ordered Highland battalions to wear standard British khaki issue long trousers and puttees during the coldest part of winter. Various photos show Highlanders in trousers in winter. (Apart from that, of course, transport personnel of Highland regiments always wore trousers.)

Great Uncle Dave didn't have to suffer every winter like that. He was killed on the first day of the Third Battle of The Scarpe/Arras, on 3rd May 1917, when his battalion and division took their turn to assault the Chemical Works at Roeux. He has no known grave, but is mentioned on Panel 6 of the Arras Memorial.

I doubt very much anyone told your uncle or his comrades to "man up"

As a student of WWI era Scottish regiments I thank you for this bit of information.