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20th March 09, 09:38 AM
#1
Although I haven't personally used the word "obsession", coming from a Scottish perspective I do find the whole "clan" thing a bit of an irrelevance and only ever considered it when choosing a tartan as it seemed like a good idea at the time rather than just selecting one at random. If I had not liked the tartan, however, I would have had absolutely no compunction in choosing another as I do not accept for a moment that there is an inviolable right to any non-patented or non-family tartan. I am very aware, however, that absence makes the heart grow fonder, that distance can obliterate memories of hardship and suffering and give the individual a pair of rose-tinted spectacles about many things others might prefer to forget. As a result, there are probably no greater adherents to the clan system, no bigger consumers of shortbread, haggis and scotch whisky, no more enthusiastic attendees at Burns suppers, no more assiduous exponents of highland dancing, piping and the learning of Gaelic than are those from the great Scottish diaspora, many separated by several generations from their roots. This is not to say, however, that any of them would actually consider returning to live the dream, preferring instead to pontificate from afar.
For a Scot born and bred and actually living in the country, however, clans have very little relevance beyond the name on a nice tartan and to bend the knee to any upstart calling themselves a "clan chief" would be totally unthinkable.
That is where I come from but I know many here think differently and I have no wish for them to curtail the innocent pleasure they derive from the feeling of "belonging" which they must enjoy, especially in some modern societies where anonymity and social isolation have become more common. As long as they don't take the next step down the road and start believing "that tartan is mine and no-one else must wear it" or worse still "my clan right or wrong". That way is the way of division and strife.
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20th March 09, 09:51 AM
#2
 Originally Posted by Phil
I am very aware, however, that absence makes the heart grow fonder, that distance can obliterate memories of hardship and suffering and give the individual a pair of rose-tinted spectacles about many things others might prefer to forget.
What you say is true. I think this is why many Americans and Canadians participate in Highland games, eating haggis, etc., as you say. To be fair, there are Scotsmen, born and raised, who also love to participate in these things, and see it as an important part of their culture.
 Originally Posted by Phil
As long as they don't take the next step down the road and start believing "that tartan is mine and no-one else must wear it" or worse still "my clan right or wrong". That way is the way of division and strife.
I agree. As I state, for me it's more of a point of reference, sense of belonging to something that is related to my ancestry, etc. I believe history and the past are very important.
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20th March 09, 10:27 AM
#3
As a relative newcomer here, I'd like to share my thoughts on this...
I've been doing a lot of digging into my family history recently and have learned some fascinating things, especially when it comes to my ties to Scotland (and other countries as well) and the history behind it.
The very idea of the old clan system is a highly romanticized fantasy for me. (did that make sense?) It's an ideal that represents, as others have said, something bigger than myself. Something I can be a part of and that helps me to define, somewhat, what I am and where I came from.
Being separated from that for several centuries, however, made it difficult for me to really make that connection solid in my mind. That was a bit disappointing until I realized that I currently belong to what I see as one of the best modern examples of what the clans once were... true, the analogy isn't perfect. The members of my clan don't tend to be blood relatives, but we have a shared history, shared experience, strong traditions and can easily identify our "Chief".
I'm a Marine. (There is no such thing as an Ex Marine, after all.) My Tartan is the USMC Leatherneck, my Clan Motto is Semper Fidelis and my Clan Chieftan is General James Conway. My brothers are all those who wear or have worn the Eagle Globe & Anchor with honor.
I've identified ties to Clan Stirling and Clan MacAlpine if I take my lineage back far enough, but those mean little to me. The Corps is my clan.
Just my thoughts for what they're worth.
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20th March 09, 10:51 AM
#4
What others in this thread have stated is pretty much true for me as well. I know the the word clan holds something different now and that it was highly romanticized. I also know that the Tartans aren't that important in this day and age.
The reason I enjoy the whole Scottish thing is because it appeals to me. I like wearing a kilt in my clans tartan. It makes me feel good. I like wearing a Balmoral with my clan badge. I like wearing a 13 " blade on my belt because it makes me feel good. I think thats where folks get the idea that wearing a kilt changes your demeanor, because it does. It makes you feel good and you act differently. It puts a spring in your step.
Now do I take it really seriously? Not really, I know my chief isn't gonna ring up one day and call me to arms lol. I know that I'll never have to pull out my dirk and slice some fool to bits ( Although sometimes I think some people deserve it LOL ) The point is all of it makes me feel good, and in a time like this we all need something to put a spring in our step.
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20th March 09, 04:07 PM
#5
 Originally Posted by Phil
...I am very aware, however, that absence makes the heart grow fonder, that distance can obliterate memories of hardship and suffering and give the individual a pair of rose-tinted spectacles about many things others might prefer to forget. As a result, there are probably no greater adherents to the clan system, no bigger consumers of shortbread, haggis and scotch whisky, no more enthusiastic attendees at Burns suppers, no more assiduous exponents of highland dancing, piping and the learning of Gaelic than are those from the great Scottish diaspora, many separated by several generations from their roots. This is not to say, however, that any of them would actually consider returning to live the dream, preferring instead to pontificate from afar.
For a Scot born and bred and actually living in the country, however, clans have very little relevance beyond the name on a nice tartan and to bend the knee to any upstart calling themselves a "clan chief" would be totally unthinkable.
...
I have often thought how ironic it sometimes is at highland games in the US when some people become so enthused over the titled clan chiefs in attendance (not that most of them aren't swell fellows,) but either don't know or choose not to remember that it was the heavy-handedness and cruelty of the ancestors of some of these same chiefs that caused the ancestors of some present-day clan afficianados to emigrate to the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and elsewhere, in the Clearances and other such oppression. There are reasons why they left Scotland, as well as reasons why Scots government, society, and culture have changed over the centuries.
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22nd March 09, 12:27 AM
#6
 Originally Posted by gilmore
I have often thought how ironic it sometimes is at highland games in the US when some people become so enthused over the titled clan chiefs in attendance (not that most of them aren't swell fellows,) but either don't know or choose not to remember that it was the heavy-handedness and cruelty of the ancestors of some of these same chiefs that caused the ancestors of some present-day clan afficianados to emigrate to the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and elsewhere, in the Clearances and other such oppression. There are reasons why they left Scotland, as well as reasons why Scots government, society, and culture have changed over the centuries.
That's an excellent point. I think what happened is that the ownership of the land changed due to a different system of law being applied. Historically, clans owned the land in common, and elected a chief by tanistry, i.e. a small group of people directly related to the old chief had the right to elect the new chief from amongst themselves. Scottish law is even now based on the Roman civil law system, just as it was before the union with England, and not the English common law system that the English exported to Ireland, amongst other places, but Scottish civil law belonged to the lowlanders and had never been applied in the highlands, until, of course, it was.
It appears that the civil law did not recognise ownership of the land by the clan. When the lowlanders exported their legal system to the highlands, they regarded the chief as owning all the land, treated his title as strictly hereditary, and regarded the members of the clan as mere tenants, instead of as members owning the clan lands in common and merely paying tribute to their chief, thus allowing the chief to evict them if he wanted to do something else with the land. Many used their new-found legal powers to literally replace their clansmen with sheep for greater profit.
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25th March 09, 05:32 PM
#7
I have very much enjoyed meeting members of my extended family, "my clan".
I have been able to verify my paper trail back to an ancestor who came to Virginia in 1698 by matching a cousin's DNA with other, rather distant descendents of that same ancestor.
I find it very easy to get along with most of these people. Easier than if they were mere strangers.
"My Chief" means, to me, the wonderful man who leads us and makes a gathering point and party central whenever he comes to the states. He knows all the history and has plans for the future of the clan including a Clan Library. He is even willing to be arbitrator when a major fight breaks out. How cool is that!!!!
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26th March 09, 06:13 AM
#8
My Clan means to me "My Hobby" while my wife will say it is my obssesion. Either way it has helped me learn history as I trace my family. I try to put the events back in the day as how it effected my family, making it more real. We have had many nice vacations around the world based around this hobby and have met many wonderful people.
We all approach life with different levels of interest aka obsession
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29th March 09, 12:58 AM
#9
This is an interesting discussion.
I feel it is a wonderful thing to know your family history and have a sense of where you came from. What did your grandfather, great grandfather, great great great great grandmother do and where did they come from.
At Highland games you almost automatically have a sense of family with others that are in your clan.
if you where walking around wearing your Clan's tartan and saw somebody else wearing the same tartan... I would guess you would walk out of way to talk to them. And if they were wearing it because they also belong to that clan (Instead of just wearing it because they liked the colors) you would have some "Family" connection and there would be a good chance that at some time in the past your families most likely lived, fought, and died together.
Are clans and Clan Chiefs "important" depends on what you mean when you ask that question. Just ask the folks in Clan Crawford, their Clan Chief sold his property and died childless in Canada and the Lord Lyon is now involved trying to figure our who if anybody can be chief of the clan
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