Interesting email from an Irish fellow about Irish kilts.

[Highland Logan]

Of all the research out online... it is overwhelmingly in support of the kilt being Scot.. and the Irish adopting the Scottish National Dess, is really a non fact.. but what we have is a movement that was to revive the Irish culture that was almost lost, due to English suppression. The Irish grasped their Celtic past and turned to its close Scottish relation, and borrowed the kilt, and turned to saffron as a color to show their Irish Identity... mind you.. saffron kilts were first used by the military as early as 1859, by the Royal Tyrone Fuisiliers Militias adopted the Saffron kilt for their pipers.. The first Irish President wore the Saffron kilt as a way to show an Irish Identity and not an English one.
First the Irish borrowed the kilt, then the Welsh, who wished to identify with their Celtic roots, and they had their own revivalist movement, it was followed by the Cornish, who had to have their language reconstructed, because so much of it was lost, The Galacians, and Bretons, followed suit...all of these Celtic Nations have National Tartans.. and all have taken to wearing kilts as a way to show pride in their common Celtic roots... but then again.. is it really that much different to Lowlanders adopting the Highland dress as a way to show pride in Scottish Nationalism, and to seperate themselves from the English?
I am not saying Ireland and the other Celtic Nations are adopting the kilt as their National dress.. but some choose to adopt it to show a pride in a culture that was once unified, through trade and cultural exchange, and to seperate themselves from the English, who in the past had suppressed these cultures.. of course.. that was part of colonialism was to suppress the languages and culture.. My mother talks about having to whisper in Gaelic when the English were around.. and she is in her late 60's..

I don't dispute what you say here, but not all countries have a National Dress. Ireland has many symbols that are importaint, I find it hard to see pride in adopting the symbols of others rather than showing off your own. And the unified culture you mention... I don't think that ever exsisted, not according to all I have read.

Frank

[Nick the DSM]

Could we say that the Irish are using the Scottish kilt to represent themselves??

[Deil the Yin]

Could we say that the Irish are using the Scottish kilt to represent themselves??

If you consider that the original "Scots" came from Ulster (a mere twelve miles across the Irish Sea to Kintyre), it's not such a stretch is it?

footnote: see Kingdom of Dalriada, also Argyll, ie Coast of the Gaels (disclaimer for spelling, sorry).

[Nick the DSM]

If you consider that the original "Scots" came from Ulster (a mere twelve miles across the Irish Sea to Kintyre), it's not such a stretch is it?

footnote: see Kingdom of Dalriada, also Argyll, ie Coast of the Gaels (disclaimer for spelling, sorry).

that's not what I meant.

What I mean is for example is these Irish Tartans and solid colored kilts, IMO, is like their own representation of themselves with a Scottish way of doing it.

Does anyone understand? I just can't get around to explaining any clearer.

[The Thing]

that's not what I meant.

What I mean is for example is these Irish Tartans and solid colored kilts, IMO, is like their own representation of themselves with a Scottish way of doing it.

Does anyone understand? I just can't get around to explaining any clearer.

10-4 I hear ya big dog, who cares how and why the kilt came about, it is a bond which binds us all now as Kilted brothers, "We many, we kilted band of brothers"

[dfmacliam]

that's not what I meant.

What I mean is for example is these Irish Tartans and solid colored kilts, IMO, is like their own representation of themselves with a Scottish way of doing it.

Does anyone understand? I just can't get around to explaining any clearer.

Irish County tartans are a recent Scot weavers product... Now the solid color kilts have probably been around as long as the tartan kilts... The Irish have just used two colors... Saffron, which is a well known color in the Irish clothing history, and green, which has a been the the color that represents Ireland as a whole.. But again.... Solid colors are not an Irish only ideal... just read Matt Newsomes blogs on it...

One thing bothers me about this thread.... It seems to be... Anyone can wear a kilt... In any tartan they want... But not the Irish, and heaven forbid they wear a solid color kilt. I like probably most Irish blood members on this forum, can trace family lines through Scotland too.. Its only the Irish is only one generation away. I am proud of all of my ancestors, because it who I am today.

[Nick the DSM]

Irish County tartans are a recent Scot weavers product... Now the solid color kilts have probably been around as long as the tartan kilts... The Irish have just used two colors... Saffron, which is a well known color in the Irish clothing history, and green, which has a been the the color that represents Ireland as a whole.. But again.... Solid colors are not an Irish only ideal... just read Matt Newsomes blogs on it...

One thing bothers me about this thread.... It seems to be... Anyone can wear a kilt... In any tartan they want... But not the Irish, and heaven forbid they wear a solid color kilt. I like probably most Irish blood members on this forum, can trace family lines through Scotland too.. Its only the Irish is only one generation away. I am proud of all of my ancestors, because it who I am today.

Dude, I know that. What I'm saying is that they can wear kilts and its not a problem. Sure county tartans are scottish products and solid colors are not just Irish, I know but I think its a way representing Irishness with a kilt, just like the Welsh cilt.

[The Thing]

I don't dispute what you say here, but not all countries have a National Dress. Ireland has many symbols that are importaint, I find it hard to see pride in adopting the symbols of others rather than showing off your own. And the unified culture you mention... I don't think that ever exsisted, not according to all I have read.

Frank

In that case it's time to axe the Kilted Regiments of Canada, Australia, United States, South Africa and New Zealand, after all by your logic, the kilt is purely and entirely the preserve of the Scot's.....?

[Bruno]

Now I am somewhat of a mongrel Gael so here's my view on the kilt.

Having 1 grandfather who was a scot and fought in a kilted English regiment despite hardly speaking English. The other was an Irish navi who never actually learned to speak English. I have an Irish uncle Mick and another called Paddy and my father was Irish. I was raised in Liverpool and as some of you know that is probably regarded as the main Irish colony in England.

So I have a fair old knowledge of both sets of folk. Now the real Irish would in fact scratch their head bemused at the idea of wearing a kilt and a few might wear one for fun or wedding.

As for most Scots they would have a very similar reaction to wearing one but tend to get all bravheart and proud at the sight of one. They also get quite territorial about their clan tartans. So the few traditionalists here tend to get very disturbed when they see folk wearing 10 different kilts with no family connection.

However most Irish will not have a problem with a kilt seeing as its a big F U to the English which always goes down well.

[Jock Scot]

Now I am somewhat of a mongrel Gael so here's my view on the kilt.

Having 1 grandfather who was a scot and fought in a kilted English regiment despite hardly speaking English. The other was an Irish navi who never actually learned to speak English. I have an Irish uncle Mick and another called Paddy and my father was Irish. I was raised in Liverpool and as some of you know that is probably regarded as the main Irish colony in England.

So I have a fair old knowledge of both sets of folk. Now the real Irish would in fact scratch their head bemused at the idea of wearing a kilt and a few might wear one for fun or wedding.

As for most Scots they would have a very similar reaction to wearing one but tend to get all bravheart and proud at the sight of one. They also get quite territorial about their clan tartans. So the few traditionalists here tend to get very disturbed when they see folk wearing 10 different kilts with no family connection.

However most Irish will not have a problem with a kilt seeing as its a big F U to the English which always goes down well.

Bruno, you are a star!You are a newcomer and probably don't realise the significance of what you have written about how the Scots, ok traditional Scots, view tartan. Thank you so much. I must buy you a wee dram or six!