pleating to the sett & the elements of the sett - Do I have this right?

[sydnie7]

No taper. . . I wonder.

There have been several discussions here about people who say that their rump and waist measurements are the same.

In reality, you probably have two circles of the same diameter (waist circle and rump circle) but I doubt that they have the exact same center in your body.

Try this -- imagine you are wearing p@nts, or actually put a pair on if you own them. Now measure from side seam to side seam around the FRONT of your waist. Then measure side seam to side seam around the REAR of your rump. This is about what your finished kilt hip measure should be, and I bet it is larger than you think. The aprons need to fall straight down from your navel toward the floor, not tuck inward under your belly.

I could be wrong, of course, but very few people are truly straight up and down with zero taper from buttocks to small of back.

[jhockin]

No taper. . . I wonder.

There have been several discussions here about people who say that their rump and waist measurements are the same.

In reality, you probably have two circles of the same diameter (waist circle and rump circle) but I doubt that they have the exact same center in your body.

Try this -- imagine you are wearing p@nts, or actually put a pair on if you own them. Now measure from side seam to side seam around the FRONT of your waist. Then measure side seam to side seam around the REAR of your rump. This is about what your finished kilt hip measure should be, and I bet it is larger than you think. The aprons need to fall straight down from your navel toward the floor, not tuck inward under your belly.

I could be wrong, of course, but very few people are truly straight up and down with zero taper from buttocks to small of back.

sydnie7
yes, you are correct; there is a one inch difference, W&H. ..I guess I should have 'said' very little taper. Thanks for your tip - I'll try that & re-check my 'splits' - haven't started sewing just yet.

Barb:
thanks, your photo really helps!

- (quote: "I chose to retain the overall symmetry of the red and green undercheck by splitting the central khaki stripe in the green undercheck.")
- I'm guessing that the green you refer to is what I was thinking of as black, and the 'khaki' is what I was thinking of as 'beige', in the three stripes: gold, beige, & brown??
- (quote: " If I had only 8 yards, I'd probably still double the sett and have larger, fewer pleats, but I can give you some advice on that if you tell me how much tartan you have and what the hip measurement is for the kilt.")
- I have 4 meters ( and yes, it is F&K, 16 oz.dbl wide)( already ripped into two pieces) & hip measurement is 45". - sounding like your suggestion to make deeper & fewer pleats (rather than 35, using single repeats) is a very good idea. Just wondering what size your pleats ( in the photo) are/were ?
-(quote: "be sure to allow for the hem when you rip the width!!")
- yeah, I screwed up there, too! Already ripped hte material - missed that part in your book, (but, it is heavily underlined & notated, now ). So, there is an 'offset'. of about one inch, bwt the 1st & 2nd piece; I'm hoping I can compensate, for this, by (after making a narrow hem, to make the two pieces match) a wider waistband ( say 1>11/2 inches??)

[Barb T]

There's no black in this tartan, actually. The dark color is green, and I've marked out above what I referred to as the "green undercheck". It would be a symmetrical block if the stripe on each side of the khaki (beige) were the same color, but it's not.

The pleats in the kilt in the photo are slightly more than 1" in width at the hips. So, if you could get 35 pleats out of using a single sett per pleat, you're likely to get only 17 if you double the sett. For hips of 45", you'll probably split the hips evenly (22.5" fore and aft), making the pleats a bit more than 1 1/4" across at the hips. I think for a man of your size that it would be OK and preferable to 35 narrow pleats. But it points up the problem with a sett that's small - it's too small for a normal # of pleats but not so small that you get a normal number of pleats by doubling the sett. That's why most commercial kilting tartan is woven with setts between 6 and 8". I have no idea why they wove it so small in 16 oz tartan.

If you decide to compensate at the top for putting in a narrow hem at the bottom, use only a 1 1/2" rise when you lay out the kilt. You can make the top band wider, if you want, to compensate. Better that than having the tartan reverse at the center back.

Oh - and just an aside! I actually didn't take a photo for either the images above. I just plunked the kilt on a scanner. Handy trick to know about if you have a scanner.

[fluter]

I bow to the mast... er, mistr... err, kilt goddess.

Better that than having the tartan reverse at the center back.

I do have this nagging vision of a reverse Kingussie, with a mirror-image sett on each side of the center back. IF all of the stripes lined up between the two pieces, of course. But actually the vision that sticks with me is 8 yards of single-width Maple Leaf.

[Barb T]

I do have this nagging vision of a reverse Kingussie, with a mirror-image sett on each side of the center back. IF all of the stripes lined up between the two pieces, of course.

The only way you could do this is to have a seam right down the center of the center back pleat. If you did a reverse Kingussie, that would be essentially hidden, which is what I assume you were thinking, Ken. But, you'd have to live with the fact that the twill line would slant one way on one side of the center back and the other way on the other side.

Could be nice, and would certainly be one way to solve the problem if you had only 4 yards double width!

[jhockin]

once again, thank you Barb , and all others, for all your help and input! this is what I really LOVE about this website!
... back to "the challenge" ... after the trick or treaters! happy All Hallows Eve, to all.

[Pleater]

I have made a reverse Kingussie kilt which is totally mirror imaged - but it is a striped material and not twill woven.

By turning the material over the three parts of the pleat are the same, so if you turn back any pleat the same colour is on the underside and on the back.

As the apron takes up slightly more material than the under apron I can sometimes move the centre seam to the left side of the centre back inverted pleat, so it is hidden.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Kiltman]

Wow what a valuable thread! I can see how a much more advance kiltmaker might not use pins, but I'm not one. Kiltmaking is an art and requires a great deal of concentration to do properly. Thanks Barb and Pleater, etc.