formal evening dress: vest or no?

[Bugbear]

Why not five button vest with jabot?
I just like the jabot. And I don't know about the cravat.

I suppose as long as there is some kind of waist cover it would be ok from what I have read on black tie atire.

[CMcG]

Why not five button vest with jabot?
I just like the jabot. And I don't know about the cravat.

<snip>

I don't see why you couldn't wear a 5 button vest with jabot but I'm no expert... I don't think I've seen that look with a PC though... do you have any pictures?

[piperdbh]

I don't see why you couldn't wear a 5 button vest with jabot but I'm no expert... I don't think I've seen that look with a PC though... do you have any pictures?

Lace jabot and cuffs is for white-tie events, which are more "formal" than black-tie.
For the PC, I think the low-cut, 3-button waistcoat with bow tie is better. Here's a shot of yours truly:

[Jock Scot]

Why not five button vest with jabot?
I just like the jabot. And I don't know about the cravat.

I suppose as long as there is some kind of waist cover it would be ok from what I have read on black tie atire.

Ted the Jabot is really another step up the formal scale, in the white tie league, and is normally worn with a "Montrose", or perhaps the versitile "Sheriffmuir". I don't think that wearing a jabot with a PC would be quite right.

[Bugbear]

Ted the Jabot is really another step up the formal scale, in the white tie league, and is normally worn with a "Montrose", or perhaps the versitile "Sheriffmuir". I don't think that wearing a jabot with a PC would be quite right.

Thanks, Jock.

I'm having to unlearn some things suddenly.

I think it is time for me to stand back from the formal Highland attire discussions, now.

[JSFMACLJR]

Thanks, Jock.

I'm having to unlearn some things suddenly.

I think it is time for me to stand back from the formal Highland attire discussions, now.

Please don't, Ted! I, for one, value your insight.

[Bugbear]

Please don't, Ted! I, for one, value your insight.

Thanks. It is a little difficult to deal with having learned that the jabot can be worn with any of the formal highland jackets, including the formal dress Argyle, then suddenly several people are saying it is for white tie and only to be worn with the doublets other than the PC.

When MacMillan of Rathdown has told me, directly, that the jabot can be properly worn with either a dress Argyle or a PC, along with the high throat waistcoat, or even an Eton jacket, I end up feeling that I am being singled out for his information, rather than the arguement being taken to him. He has been discussing this, here on the forum, for years now. I know very little about Highland attire, beyond what has been discussed on the forum.

[Zardoz]

Ted, CMcG, I think the bottom line on a lot of this stuff is that there is no bottom line.

While you, or anyone, should certainly take the advice, opinions, and/or photographic evidence from members of this forum into consideration when thinking about your Highlandwear choices, let them help you to make YOUR choices about YOUR personal style, not dictate them. Let the examples here be your guides, not your gospel. Like Jock said, it would be no fun if we all dressed alike.

The question CMcG asked about the PC/waistcoat/belt/cravat etc. issue in his OP is a good example, while there is a consensus about those issues in this thread, one does not have to look far on the interwebs to find lots of conflicting info. You can likely google-up a bunch of photos, various websites, and even older threads on this forum, to support any of the different options mentioned.

[MacLowlife]

I like the jabot and look forward to seeing people wear it, be it for white or black tie, or just because it is so much fun to mess with people ( Epater les Bourgeoises). And, to some degree, a lot of this discussion is like Fantasy Football- we do wear these things, but many of us describe them more than we actually put them on.

I hope I am wrong there.

And wrong is probably what I am about Traditional vs Historical, especially in THIS forum, but I think it is useful to remember that Traditional either evolves or it is merely another word for Historical.

I expect a handy and practical trick is to find a picture of the outfit one contemplates, many of which are above, and to ask oneself "Will that look good on me? Do I like the way that looks?" And there is your answer. We all seem to agree about the ruche tie and the 5 button waistcoat, but millions of Chavs can't be wrong, can they?

As DLP said about my own folly, de gustibus non est disputandem.

[sfb]

I smiled when I saw this from MacLowlife earlier, because it strikes a chord with me: "what looks good can also be influenced by fashion, but it is not necessarily bound by rules, other than some theoretical rules of aesthetics and usually by common sense.... So, if Duncan Alexander or Grant Walker or Campbell MacDonald decides to wear one tartan around his neck and another one around his waist, I would suggest the real question is "Do you really want to mix red, burgundy, and orange?" rather than "Where are the tartan police when we really need them?"

I'd just add that if I was about to leave the house wearing a mixture of red burgundy & orange, then my beloved would probably be having a quiet word with me before I got out the door. I can't be the only one on here who bows to a higher authority when it comes to sartorial colour clashes in public, even if it is traditional to ignore them when you're wearing the kilt.

Oh, and...

Ted, CMcG, I think the bottom line on a lot of this stuff is that there is no bottom line.

While you, or anyone, should certainly take the advice, opinions, and/or photographic evidence from members of this forum into consideration when thinking about your Highlandwear choices, let them help you to make YOUR choices about YOUR personal style, not dictate them. Let the examples here be your guides, not your gospel. Like Jock said, it would be no fun if we all dressed alike.

...aye, what he said.

I've got a wedding to go to in Glasgow on Friday. Aberdeen groom, Lanarkshire bride. I predict an eclectic selection of lounge suits; proper old fashioned Heilan' jackets; loads of Prince Charlies, and at least one Charcoal tweed day jacket. Which'll be me, as I bought it specially because I think my Argyll with the silvery buttons is a bit formal. However, I'll thereafter be annoying some folk because I'll be wearing my dress sporran with it, to turn up the whole "dressed up" effect a wee bit.

As MacLowlife suggests - I like the way it looks. And, more importantly, so does my partner, so I'll be allowed out.