Tunes of Glory?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

A film like TUNES OF GLORY is made in four stages:

(1) SET UP this is when the producers dial in the script and attach the various performers, directors, camera, and craftsmen to the film project.
(2) PRE-PRODUCTION puts everyone on the payroll, builds the sets, sorts the costumes rehearses the cast, and takes care of any last minute glitches.
(3) PRODUCTION is all of the time spent in front of the cameras, which can be anything from a few weeks to several years depending on the complexity of the story.
(4) POST-PRODUCTION in it's simplest terms means editing the film footage into a cohesive narrative (in other words making sure the picture has a logical beginning, middle, and end).

The entire process of making a film is constrained by two things: the total budget the studio has allotted the producer for the project, and the amount of time available to the producer to complete steps 2-4. Film making is not a leisurely process, and frankly on a small budget film like Tunes of Glory the producer probably wouldn't have wasted time or money on a special weave of tartan-- his costume designer would have selected something readily available, checked with the set designer and the director of photography to make sure the fabric would "work" on camera, and would then schedule fittings for everyone who would be kilted in the film.

What the costume designer wouldn't have done was sit down, design a tartan, have it woven, then have kilts made.

So, if it's the consensus of well-informed opinion on XMTS that the regiment is wearing brown Scott tartan-- well, that's good enough for me.

[macwilkin]

A film like TUNES OF GLORY is made in four stages:

(1) SET UP this is when the producers dial in the script and attach the various performers, directors, camera, and craftsmen to the film project.
(2) PRE-PRODUCTION puts everyone on the payroll, builds the sets, sorts the costumes rehearses the cast, and takes care of any last minute glitches.
(3) PRODUCTION is all of the time spent in front of the cameras, which can be anything from a few weeks to several years depending on the complexity of the story.
(4) POST-PRODUCTION in it's simplest terms means editing the film footage into a cohesive narrative (in other words making sure the picture has a logical beginning, middle, and end).

The entire process of making a film is constrained by two things: the total budget the studio has allotted the producer for the project, and the amount of time available to the producer to complete steps 2-4. Film making is not a leisurely process, and frankly on a small budget film like Tunes of Glory the producer probably wouldn't have wasted time or money on a special weave of tartan-- his costume designer would have selected something readily available, checked with the set designer and the director of photography to make sure the fabric would "work" on camera, and would then schedule fittings for everyone who would be kilted in the film.

What the costume designer wouldn't have done was sit down, design a tartan, have it woven, then have kilts made.

So, if it's the consensus of well-informed opinion on XMTS that the regiment is wearing brown Scott tartan-- well, that's good enough for me.

I think this stands to reason.

T.

[BobsYourUncle]

A film like TUNES OF GLORY is made in four stages:

(1) SET UP this is when the producers dial in the script and attach the various performers, directors, camera, and craftsmen to the film project.
(2) PRE-PRODUCTION puts everyone on the payroll, builds the sets, sorts the costumes rehearses the cast, and takes care of any last minute glitches.
(3) PRODUCTION is all of the time spent in front of the cameras, which can be anything from a few weeks to several years depending on the complexity of the story.
(4) POST-PRODUCTION in it's simplest terms means editing the film footage into a cohesive narrative (in other words making sure the picture has a logical beginning, middle, and end).

The entire process of making a film is constrained by two things: the total budget the studio has allotted the producer for the project, and the amount of time available to the producer to complete steps 2-4. Film making is not a leisurely process, and frankly on a small budget film like Tunes of Glory the producer probably wouldn't have wasted time or money on a special weave of tartan-- his costume designer would have selected something readily available, checked with the set designer and the director of photography to make sure the fabric would "work" on camera, and would then schedule fittings for everyone who would be kilted in the film.

What the costume designer wouldn't have done was sit down, design a tartan, have it woven, then have kilts made.

So, if it's the consensus of well-informed opinion on XMTS that the regiment is wearing brown Scott tartan-- well, that's good enough for me.

I am afraid the logic herein is unassailable. The most credible part of the story of the movie's production is that the A&SH and MOD prohibited the use of any actual Army tartan or emblem. That does not automatically translate into the design of an original tartan for the movie. I would agree that Neame's recollection may well have been faulty--and yet he was the director. One should be wary of dismissing the evidence of witnesses in favor of mere logic--I would take Director Neame's evidence over most other sources. However, I will observe that comparing the tartan as depicted in the film with Brown Scott, as was done in the Dunsire thread and shown in Post # 11 in this thread, it looks quite like a match. At this juncture in the discussion, I move from believer to agnostic. Without better evidence for either proposition, I am not convinced that either is proven.

Now what I would really like is a good, clean photo showing detail as to the cap badge...

[macwilkin]

Bob,

I certainly wasn't advocating that we discount Naeme entirely; however, as a historian I was taught to never depend on just one source, and to consider possible factors to place a primary source in context. However, the one post from the piper who asked Kenny Dalgleish, a man whose business is to know tartans, seems to confirm that it is Brown Scott. Such an observation, if legitimate, certainly would confirm what Rathdown has said about the adoption of the tartan.

It is interesting to note, btw, that Jock's swipe that "Cock O' The North" is a "cheesy tune" was also Kennaway's personal dig at his old regiment, from which he reportedly took his inspiration.

T.

[auld argonian]

I'm laughing out loud about Todd's reference to Jock's line about "Cock O' The North"...

...whenever anyone suggests a tune that I don't like, I can be caught saying. "Yon's a cheesy tune; you'll no play that." and then looking at the wall of blank expressions from the people that never saw the movie...

Ah, in-jokes!

Best

AA

[Woot22]

I'm laughing out loud about Todd's reference to Jock's line about "Cock O' The North"...

...whenever anyone suggests a tune that I don't like, I can be caught saying. "Yon's a cheesy tune; you'll no play that." and then looking at the wall of blank expressions from the people that never saw the movie...

Ah, in-jokes!

Best

AA

One of my favorite lines from that movie as well. Always makes me chuckle when he says that considering how serious the mood of the movie is at that moment.

[figheadair]

A film like TUNES OF GLORY is made in four stages:

What the costume designer wouldn't have done was sit down, design a tartan, have it woven, then have kilts made.

So, if it's the consensus of well-informed opinion on XMTS that the regiment is wearing brown Scott tartan-- well, that's good enough for me.

I have to disagree. Here's a better image of the Tunes of Glory tartan



It may have been based on the Brown Scott, who knows, but it's certainly not it.

Having done the tartan & Highland Dress advice for the film Rob Roy I know that if the director wants a different colouring and has the money then they will go to a special weave which is what happened there. I had an old piece associated with the MacGregors that the Head of Costume absolutely loved but as was often the case with C18th specimens the red was a deep rose pink. She wanted it but the director (I'm not having Liam Neilson wearing pink) had other views and so they went for a special run of a blue and brown sett that had not historical basis but 'looked right' to him.

[Rob Wright]

Here are a few links to flesh oot the tartan used.

Kilts used in film still around:

http://archive.thisiswiltshire.co.uk...13/259111.html

Discussion concerning the tartan used:

http://forums.bobdunsire.com/forums/.../t-111686.html

And finally a quote from one of the posters:

02-02-2010, 07:31 AM
I have a piece of the cloth. Mr Kenny Dalgliesh of DC Dalgliesh in Selkirk took one look and said "Brown Scott' The expert has spoken.
The kilts were made by a kilt maker on Forth St, Edinburgh and as you can see on the movie they have civvy buckles!

Rob

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I have to disagree. Here's a better image of the Tunes of Glory tartan



It may have been based on the Brown Scott, who knows, but it's certainly not it.

Having done the tartan & Highland Dress advice for the film Rob Roy I know that if the director wants a different colouring and has the money then they will go to a special weave which is what happened there. I had an old piece associated with the MacGregors that the Head of Costume absolutely loved but as was often the case with C18th specimens the red was a deep rose pink. She wanted it but the director (I'm not having Liam Neilson wearing pink) had other views and so they went for a special run of a blue and brown sett that had not historical basis but 'looked right' to him.

The difference between ROB ROY and TUNES OF GLORY is about $150 million in the production budget, which allows directors a certain leeway in creating one kilt for the star, as opposed to fifty odd kilts for the entire cast.

So, ROB ROY not withstanding, until someone proves otherwise, I'm sticking to my guns and backing the Brown Scott theory.

[OC Richard]

I just thought it would be nice to juxtapose these three images.

I don't see how the Tunes Of Glory tartan is any different from Hunting Scott.

Yes the dark blue (?) band is wider, the brown portion narrower, on the swatch, but there are cases where the proportions of the same tartan vary from mill to mill. The proportions are up to the whim of each weaver and do not make it a different sett.