exceptions to tradition: the Queen

[Jock Scot]

The picture you describe Mike is most certainly the one that I have in mind, although the last time I saw it, some time ago, the picture had been "adjusted" somewhat!

[macwilkin]

Trefor, it seems we are thinking about a different picture.
The one I have in mind is a formal group of regimental officers , seated, with Her Majesty in the middle. On her right (left as you look at the picture) is a young subaltern who has forgotten to push his sporran down between his knees, revealing the obvious, all the while with a silly grin on his face.
The picture you have in mind is more in keeping with a sergeant-major's behaviour!
Regards,
Mike

I seem to remember reading a news article that said the photo of the Argyll officer in question was "doctored" to "anatomically correct":

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...land-game.html

Snopes.com, which debunks such "urban legends", has this to say:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/risque/queen.asp

T.

[Mike_Oettle]

Well, Jock, although the copy I have of that picture is somewhat blurred, it does not have the appearance of being doctored.
And there are also those pictures of the ceremony in Hong Kong when the Union Jack was lowered for the last time.
Regards,
Mike

[macwilkin]

Well, Jock, although the copy I have of that picture is somewhat blurred, it does not have the appearance of being doctored.
And there are also those pictures of the ceremony in Hong Kong when the Union Jack was lowered for the last time.
Regards,
Mike

Read the article from Snopes, Mike. I'm still not totally convinced.

And yes, the photo from Hong Kong in 1997 is most certainly not doctored. I spoke to a fellow who was a corporal in the Black Watch stationed in HK for the handover to the Communists who confirmed it.
T.

[Nighthawk]

I was taught all I know about kilts by my Maternal Grandfather who fought kilted with the Argyll's in WW1. As far as I could garner from him, they did in the main wear underwear in the cold weather, and did not in the main in the hot weather due to lice - it was easier to go without.
There is one thing he did always stress, that it was not good manners to discuss whether you did or not with ANYONE else. I find it mildly discomforting that men feel the need to discuss this entirely private matter at all.....

I tend to agree, but you have to remember that there is the misconception that it's some sort of taboo to wear them, and that a lot of men don't feel comfortable with that. On the other hand, none of us wants to offend tradition. So what better idea to learn than to simply ask? If accurate and more informed, less contradictory information were available, there would be no need to discuss it!

So- to answer the question from what I was taught by my paternal grandmother, who was a MacLeod from the Isle of Skye- If you were take a French poodle and put a German collar on it, would it all of a sudden become a German shepherd? Of course not! By the same basic logic, what you wear under your kilt does not change the nature of what it is.

[Mike_Oettle]

Todd, that comment from Snopes is unusually inconclusive, which leads me to wonder . . .
Regards,
Mike

[macwilkin]

So- to answer the question from what I was taught by my paternal grandmother, who was a MacLeod from the Isle of Skye- If you were take a French poodle and put a German collar on it, would it all of a sudden become a German shepherd? Of course not! By the same basic logic, what you wear under your kilt does not change the nature of what it is.

The American President Eisenhower was once asked if he considered himself a Texan (he was born there), even though he was raised in Kansas -- Ike replied:

"If a cat has kittens in the oven, do you call 'em biscuits?"



T.

[Micric]

Mike,

Sgian dubh?..........tradition...must draw blood before being sheathed ? :-)
Kukri in my sock? :-) :-)

[BobsYourUncle]

Fun thread!

[Mike_Oettle]

While it has been said on these forums in several places that there is no such tradition as the requirement that a sgian dubh must draw blood before it is re-sheathed, I was told a story many years ago about my commanding officer that led me to believe (at the time) that it was true.
I did not have the opportunity to ascertain what my commanding officer actually did or believed about the practice, but a chap I knew told me that he had met the officer in question and, on being shown the sgian dubh, was told that it had to draw blood, and that his (my informant’s) thumb had been pricked by the tip of the sgian.
I should mention also that the officer in question (his rank was commandant, since the South African Army had at the time done away with lieutenant-colonels) was not himself a Scot. He was a South African-born Lebanese, a devout Roman Catholic who had married a Roman Catholic lady of Scottish extraction. He was well respected as a businessman (he ran a car dealership) and as a soldier.
In fact, another story told about him was that he had run away during the war to join the regiment (First City), which was in camp in the Eastern Transvaal at the time. As a pupil at St Andrew’s College he was known to the men in the regiment (officers and other ranks), who knew he was only 16, and arranged for him to return to school.
After the war he did join the regiment, and went to England for two years on an exchange programme with the Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment. He rose to the rank of sergeant before being sent on a course to qualify as a commissioned officer.
So clearly he was a seasoned soldier before becoming the OC, and familiar with British military tradition, but at the same time without direct experience of Scottish kilted regimental usage.
However, since I did not discuss the incident of the sgian with him on the few occasions that I was in his company socially, I cannot verify it.
Nonetheless, he could have been convinced that it was a genuine tradition.
I similarly did not discuss with him the tradition of not wearing underwear with the kilt, nor any possible exceptions to it.
Not sure whether this clears anything up at all, but there it is.
Regards,
Mike