exceptions to tradition: the Queen

[Mike_Oettle]

A question from my wife last night brought back to mind an aspect of kilt lore that I had almost forgotten.
I mentioned a point made by Jock Scot that in the Highlands, wearing a kilt with underwear rendered the kilt a mere skirt (improper wear for men).
And she asked: what about the tradition that an exception is made when a Queen is on the throne?
Now when I was with my regiment, some mention was made of such an exception, but nobody paid much attention to it. I never did quite figure out whether that was because it was a non-existent exception or because we no longer had a Queen (South Africa having been a republic for close on a decade when I first joined the regiment.)
In other words, was this an actual part of tradition, or something apocryphal, like the unwritten law that a sgian dubh has to draw blood before being sheathed?
So would Jock or some other knowledgeable Scot enlighten us: Is there any truth at all in the belief that the presence of a Queen Regnant on the throne would make any difference to the tradition?
My feeling is that it would not, but I would like to satisfy my wife with an authoritative answer.
Regards,
Mike

[M. A. C. Newsome]

It really doesn't matter what anyone does or does not wear under his kilt -- it's no one's business except the wearer's.

Jock's statement that wearing underwear makes it a skirt was just a bit of kilt wearing humor.

[Jock Scot]

I have to confess that I have not come across that one. I did not serve in a Scottish regiment so perhaps some one who does, or did, may know of something? There are several pictures on the Internet of kilted Scottish soldiers on parade and even in the presence of Her Majesty that seem ,rather graphically, to indicate that they had not heard of this "tradition" either!

[Mike_Oettle]

Thank you, Jock, for such a prompt response. When my wife asked me, I had that very picture in mind!
And Matt, yes, the humorous aspect of Jock’s remark was not lost on me!
Regards,
Mike

[McClef]

The picture that I think that everyone is referring to was doctored.

I am sure that Her Majesty does not carry a mirror on a stick when in the company of kilted soldiers.

[Lallans]

Thinking back to the story of the origin of the kilt pin, where a squaddie's kilt was blowing up and Victoria gave him a pin to preserve his modesty, what was the undergarment status in that case? That should tell us something.

[Urchurdan]

I was taught all I know about kilts by my Maternal Grandfather who fought kilted with the Argyll's in WW1. As far as I could garner from him, they did in the main wear underwear in the cold weather, and did not in the main in the hot weather due to lice - it was easier to go without.
There is one thing he did always stress, that it was not good manners to discuss whether you did or not with ANYONE else. I find it mildly discomforting that men feel the need to discuss this entirely private matter at all.....

[Nighthawk]

I was taught all I know about kilts by my Maternal Grandfather who fought kilted with the Argyll's in WW1. As far as I could garner from him, they did in the main wear underwear in the cold weather, and did not in the main in the hot weather due to lice - it was easier to go without.
There is one thing he did always stress, that it was not good manners to discuss whether you did or not with ANYONE else. I find it mildly discomforting that men feel the need to discuss this entirely private matter at all.....

I tend to agree, but you have to remember that there is the misconception that it's some sort of taboo to wear them, and that a lot of men don't feel comfortable with that. On the other hand, none of us wants to offend tradition. So what better idea to learn than to simply ask? If accurate and more informed, less contradictory information were available, there would be no need to discuss it!

So- to answer the question from what I was taught by my paternal grandmother, who was a MacLeod from the Isle of Skye- If you were take a French poodle and put a German collar on it, would it all of a sudden become a German shepherd? Of course not! By the same basic logic, what you wear under your kilt does not change the nature of what it is.

[Tobus]

I was taught all I know about kilts by my Maternal Grandfather who fought kilted with the Argyll's in WW1. As far as I could garner from him, they did in the main wear underwear in the cold weather, and did not in the main in the hot weather due to lice - it was easier to go without.
There is one thing he did always stress, that it was not good manners to discuss whether you did or not with ANYONE else. I find it mildly discomforting that men feel the need to discuss this entirely private matter at all.....

An individual's choice is certainly his own. But I thought this discussion was about military regulations and traditions? Certainly it's not a "private matter" if it's part of the military dress code.

[McClef]

Trefor, it seems we are thinking about a different picture.

No Mike, it was the same one.

I had previously read that the "modest" version was the original but that his more careless pose had been an open invitation for a little digital fun.

However even Snopes cannot make up its mind.

But I am sure that even if true, Her Majesty, would have been as amused as her Great Great Grandmother, Queen Victoria was in a conversation with Mrs Disraeli.

They were talking about perfection at a Buckingham Palace levée and the Queen had made a remark about something or other being perfect.

To which Mary Ann Disraeli artlessly remarked "ah but Ma'am, you haven't seen my Dizzy in the bath."

Victoria had to put her fan in front of her face to hide her giggles.