Lions in Scotland??

[Cage]

slightly off time frame, but an interesting read...
Tower Lions

[Bill]

Ron:

I don't remember the time frame but I saw recently on the History channel the ond of the Scots Kings kept a lion pit just outside of his chambers complete with removable bridge that could be removed. Should Edinbrough (sp?) castle be attacked and things were not going well he could withdraw to his chambers withdraw the bridge and let the attackers get chummy with the lions below if they were foolish enough to try and cross. BTW whilst they were playing with the kitties he made good his escape throught a secret tunnel. It bugs me daylights out of me that I can't recall the kings' name right now.
I said all that to indicate that there must have been some who were well aquainted with the lion in Scotland at one time or another.

Bill

[ccga3359]

Let's not forget that the Romans occupied much of Britain two millennia ago. True they may not have been able to scale a 3' high wall to get into Scotland but they where pretty much everywhere else in Europe and Africa. could they have introduced the lion as a symbol? We also had King Richard the Lion-Hearted. As for dragons not existing, of interesting note they do show up in different cultures that had no connection with each other. And lastly might I remind you that there was a Stewart that saw a 6' rabbit that no one else saw!

[James MacMillan]

Let's not forget that the Romans occupied much of Britain two millennia ago. True they may not have been able to scale a 3' high wall to get into Scotland but they where pretty much everywhere else in Europe and Africa. could they have introduced the lion as a symbol? We also had King Richard the Lion-Hearted. As for dragons not existing, of interesting note they do show up in different cultures that had no connection with each other. And lastly might I remind you that there was a Stewart that saw a 6' rabbit that no one else saw!

Harvey! Good old Harvey! I love that flic, especially the end!

[macwilkin]

Let's not forget that the Romans occupied much of Britain two millennia ago. True they may not have been able to scale a 3' high wall to get into Scotland but they where pretty much everywhere else in Europe and Africa. could they have introduced the lion as a symbol? We also had King Richard the Lion-Hearted. As for dragons not existing, of interesting note they do show up in different cultures that had no connection with each other. And lastly might I remind you that there was a Stewart that saw a 6' rabbit that no one else saw!

Heraldry came to the British Isles long after the Romans did. Scottish monarch William I (The Lion) is credited with the adopting the Lion Rampant, as per my previous post, although other sources credit King Alexander II, whose seal displayed it in 1222. I think we are safe to say, though, that the Lion Rampant did not originate with the Romans or a six-foot pooka, but the House of Canmore.

Regards,

Todd

[gilmore]

...Look at it this way: many folks have used the double-headed eagle (the Byzantines, the Hapsburgs, etc.) to symbolize an Empire in the East and West. It's not about actually seeing a double-headed eagle.

Regards,

Todd

I recently read an anecdote about a prince from one of the eastern European royal or imperial families who was brought an eagle that had been killed on his estate. He refused to believe it was indeed an eagle, since it had only one head.

[McGurk]

Don't forget there is a lot of Lion imagery in the Bible. Sampson & the lion, "Lion of Judah" etc.
North Africa was once a big Christian center, Crusaders, knights & pilgrims to the Holy land could've seen lions on their travels.

I think that is probably the biggest factor in them knowing of lions. The bible these days carries less weight then it did back then. Back in those days, Kings where kings because it was gods will. The bible was also probably the most common book around and imagery from it would have been hugely polular.

[Sardious]

Even if he went on a Crusade he wouldn't have been in lion country

Lions are common in all cultures but as to the quote above.

Jesus's 2 most common nicknames in prophecy and in the "bew testament" would be Lamb of God and Lion of Judah
Judah was one of the 12 tribes and as Lion of Judah represents power and kingship

Also danger is often listen in the Bible as "like a lion" in that it creeps up on you but is very dealy. Also Satan is likened unto a roaring lion seeking to destroy. So being in the crusades you probably heard a lot of daily preaching and lion is not an uncommon term.

Still lions in symbol are probably still common before the crusades. Most cultures concider the lion the bets hunter or strongest animal. Cats in general are pound for pound better killers than most any other animal and outside of a tiger a lion is about the biggest cat.
If you have kids I'm sure they love the "king of the jungle" songs from lion king and jungle book movies.

As far as lions existing in scotland......only in name comparison. To the best that I know of the species never lived there. I never read any history book of lions in scotland

[auld argonian]

Almost any of the explanations are feasible. I'd like to throw in the fact that Ancient Celts spanned a very wide area in Europe...as far East as Northern Turkey and well down into the Iberian Peninsula. Some bit of documentary that I recently saw parts of on Youtube pointed out similarities between some forms of Irish music and dance and those of Northern African cultures. The reasoning seems to be that there was a flow of culture through the Iberian Peninsula and by sea along the Western coast of Europe up into the British Isles. Surely the image of the lion was very well known in Northern Africa and in the "nearly Middle Eastern" part of Ancient Turkey.

Just another possibility to muddy the waters!

Best

AA

[macwilkin]

Actually, the answer has already been posted. The House of Canmore is given credit for the adoption of the Lion Rampant. William was known as "the Lion", so hence the adoption of a lion on William's arms. Some sources credit Alexander II as "formally" adopting the lion on his seal in 1266.

Regards,

Todd