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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    ...I am very aware, however, that absence makes the heart grow fonder, that distance can obliterate memories of hardship and suffering and give the individual a pair of rose-tinted spectacles about many things others might prefer to forget. As a result, there are probably no greater adherents to the clan system, no bigger consumers of shortbread, haggis and scotch whisky, no more enthusiastic attendees at Burns suppers, no more assiduous exponents of highland dancing, piping and the learning of Gaelic than are those from the great Scottish diaspora, many separated by several generations from their roots. This is not to say, however, that any of them would actually consider returning to live the dream, preferring instead to pontificate from afar.
    For a Scot born and bred and actually living in the country, however, clans have very little relevance beyond the name on a nice tartan and to bend the knee to any upstart calling themselves a "clan chief" would be totally unthinkable.
    ...
    I have often thought how ironic it sometimes is at highland games in the US when some people become so enthused over the titled clan chiefs in attendance (not that most of them aren't swell fellows,) but either don't know or choose not to remember that it was the heavy-handedness and cruelty of the ancestors of some of these same chiefs that caused the ancestors of some present-day clan afficianados to emigrate to the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and elsewhere, in the Clearances and other such oppression. There are reasons why they left Scotland, as well as reasons why Scots government, society, and culture have changed over the centuries.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilmore View Post
    I have often thought how ironic it sometimes is at highland games in the US when some people become so enthused over the titled clan chiefs in attendance (not that most of them aren't swell fellows,) but either don't know or choose not to remember that it was the heavy-handedness and cruelty of the ancestors of some of these same chiefs that caused the ancestors of some present-day clan afficianados to emigrate to the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and elsewhere, in the Clearances and other such oppression. There are reasons why they left Scotland, as well as reasons why Scots government, society, and culture have changed over the centuries.
    That's an excellent point. I think what happened is that the ownership of the land changed due to a different system of law being applied. Historically, clans owned the land in common, and elected a chief by tanistry, i.e. a small group of people directly related to the old chief had the right to elect the new chief from amongst themselves. Scottish law is even now based on the Roman civil law system, just as it was before the union with England, and not the English common law system that the English exported to Ireland, amongst other places, but Scottish civil law belonged to the lowlanders and had never been applied in the highlands, until, of course, it was.

    It appears that the civil law did not recognise ownership of the land by the clan. When the lowlanders exported their legal system to the highlands, they regarded the chief as owning all the land, treated his title as strictly hereditary, and regarded the members of the clan as mere tenants, instead of as members owning the clan lands in common and merely paying tribute to their chief, thus allowing the chief to evict them if he wanted to do something else with the land. Many used their new-found legal powers to literally replace their clansmen with sheep for greater profit.

  3. #3
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    I have very much enjoyed meeting members of my extended family, "my clan".
    I have been able to verify my paper trail back to an ancestor who came to Virginia in 1698 by matching a cousin's DNA with other, rather distant descendents of that same ancestor.

    I find it very easy to get along with most of these people. Easier than if they were mere strangers.

    "My Chief" means, to me, the wonderful man who leads us and makes a gathering point and party central whenever he comes to the states. He knows all the history and has plans for the future of the clan including a Clan Library. He is even willing to be arbitrator when a major fight breaks out. How cool is that!!!!

  4. #4
    Colonel MacNeal is offline Membership Revoked for repeated rule violations.
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    To be a healthy human being, one must be a mongrel. (genetic diversity) Thus stated, clan affiliation, is in my opinion something to be taken with a grain of salt.

  5. #5
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    We all have a sense of belonging and family/heritage is one of the best ways to fill that need. Pride in one's self and family is universal. The concept of clan may for most not have the same meaning it once did, but it still has meaning. It is a connection to both past and present.

  6. #6
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    These days it probably makes more sense, especially for those of us in the Scottish Diaspora, to think of the clan more loosely as a family association. That said, some clans are more organized than others.

    For instance, the House of Gordon has state and regional coordinators here in the US. According to their website

    The House of Gordon USA began as a branch of the Scottish Incorporation of the House of Gordon, set up by the current chief's father, Douglas Gordon, 12th Marquess of Huntly.
    They maintain relatively close ties. I understand that the Earl of Aboyne, son of the current chief, is coming to the US for a House of Gordon event this year.

    That said,

    The Gordon clan since the 15th century has included both Highland and Lowland
    branches of the family and also has branches of the family in Russia, Germany,
    Belgium, The Netherlands, Spain, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United
    States as well as other parts of the world. It was felt that to be called a Highland Clan
    only did not truly reflect the history of the Gordons, therefore the Chief chose to call
    the clan by the name House of Gordon.
    Animo non astutia

  7. #7
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    Scotus, I've had to set aside much of what my family believes about itself, and almost everything on my father's side of the family, in relation to clans.
    My view is that the word "clan" has changed and expanded. We can talk about clans in a historical sense, and it's probably best not to bring any of that expanded definition along for the discussion, but we are dealing also with here and now and our kilts etc.

    I try to keep in mind that the chiefe of a clan decides which tartans are and are not clan tartans; for example, with the MacMillan Black tartan issue.

    However, in the here and now, I have no problem with, for example, a person who has served calling their branch of the military a clan and the tartan a clan tartan. like the Leather Neck tartan. Nor with the XMTS tartan being thought of and called a clan tartan.

    I only hope that people try to be aware that many tartans have this kind of meaning, or are actual clan tartans, and keep this in mind when discussing or wearing the tartan. That is, that many tartans have meanings for and connections to groups of people.
    Last edited by Bugbear; 20th March 09 at 11:48 AM.
    I tried to ask my inner curmudgeon before posting, but he sprayed me with the garden hose…
    Yes, I have squirrels in my brain…

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Crocker
    We can talk about clans in a historical sense
    Yes, when I asked the questions, I meant "clan" in the historic sense. In no way do I consider X Marks a "clan." I meant what it means to individuals in the historic, Scottish sense. Ted, you bring up an important point I didn't; that is, it's the chief who decides what the clan tartan is and isn't. This, of course, is significant for people (like myself) who find the historic connection to a clan to be important in their lives.

  9. #9
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    Yes, exactly. I understand. There is also the Black Watch. It is not a clan tartan, but has a great deal of meaning, and a great deal of that meaning is historical.

    Anyway, I understand where you're coming from, Scotus.
    I tried to ask my inner curmudgeon before posting, but he sprayed me with the garden hose…
    Yes, I have squirrels in my brain…

  10. #10
    macwilkin is offline
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    Of course it should be noted that a number of scholars, including the late Jamie Scarlett, believed that the clan tartan orginated from the tartans of the Highland regiments...

    Regards,

    Todd

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