Attention all Kiltmakers, does anyone have good photos of this specific tartan?

**Barb T** · 19th April 10, 01:57 PM

Yes - and the full sett is not the distance between the two black lines shown in Hothir Ethelnor's post - it's *twice* the distance. To pleat this tartan, you have only a couple of options: 1) pleat to the sett and settle for a small number of really big pleats, 2) pleat to the sett and "cheat the pleats" (i.e., pick up elements of the sett every half sett or so, rather than every whole sett), which could be done with this tartan but might require a couple of double-deep pleats, or 3) pleat to the stripe and select a stripe that it repeated twice per sett.

**Hothir Ethelnor** · 19th April 10, 03:06 PM

I put in a black stripe at each pivot point only the ones on the green represent the full set.

Everything else listen to what Barb said. (she wrote the book you know...)

I like to pleat "to the cheat" with tartans so I find a stripe I like that is in the sett more than once and have fun finding a nice pleat depth across the tartan that still has enough repeats to keep my pleats under 1" in width.

Lay out the fabric and try a couple things and see how the pleat depth compares and what visual styles you like.

**Barb T** · 19th April 10, 05:27 PM

Either of the black lines could be used to measure the "full sett". You can measure the full sett from any point to any other identical point one full sett away. It's just easier to avoid a mistake by measuring between identical pivots.

**ChrisRossKin** · 19th April 10, 08:53 PM

Barbara, oh I think I see what your saying now.
Sorry I was in and out today and only had a moment to glance
at what you both had posted.
Mr. Ethelnor, thank you for sending the great shot of the tartan with the marks.
Barb, so you are saying between the outer black marks or double those?
I also received the threadcount details from the Scottish Register of Tartans.
I was hoping to just try counting out the threads, I guess I could, however
there's about 448 different threads across, so it can get one, well, "bug-eyed". Comparing that to some of the ones near the front of your book, "The Art of Kiltmaking, it's somewhere between the Weathered Ferguson and the MacLachlan tartan in inches, right?
Will looking at the threadcount help or does it not matter much?
Oh, where is the best place to order the straps?
I am studying the book slowly to get it just right and I was hoping to find someone who has made this kilt before.
I've tried contacting some of the people from the Ross tent at one of the games, but have not heard back from any. Oh almost forgot, the fabric is 16 oz. Lochcarron Strome.
Thanks again for all the help and am really enjoyed this forum and everyone participating. Oh, by the way Barb, I like the you tube you posted, good job!!
Please keep in touch and happy kiltmaking.
Chris

**Hothir Ethelnor** · 20th April 10, 05:14 AM

Check out this thread for the buckles question.

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...buckles-58650/

I believe she meant the outer black marks show the full sett. You would have to double the distance of the closer marks to equal a full sett repeat.

**Barb T** · 20th April 10, 05:20 AM

Hi Chris,

When you're looking at tartan and you're trying to find the full sett, you want to find the distance where the full tartan repeats itself. If you look at Hothir's post, you'll see that, if you go from one black line to the next, the tartan doesn't repeat after the second black line. You would need to go to the next iteration of the first black line to have the full repeat (which would be off to the right out of the picture).

It's tough to use threadcounts to determine what the sett size will be because you don't actually know what a mill will do. Thread weights vary, and "thread counts" can be interpreted as proportions, not individual threads. Typically, the sett size of the same tartan is smaller in lighter fabric (but the actual number of threads in a block isn't always the same for 14 and 16 oz tartan, even from the same mill). It's best to just ask the mill or the supplier what the sett size is (and they should be happy to tell you). If you want me to ask Lochcarron for you, I'd be happy to. Chances are that this sett is in the 12-14" range. But the only way to really know is to ask.

**Barb T** · 20th April 10, 06:47 AM

It doesn't matter *where* you measure the sett size, as long as you measure from one identical point to the next identical point at which the tartan actually repeats. In the image below, all of the black arrows are exactly the same length, and they start at one spot in the tartan (not necessarily a pivot) and go to the an identical spot. At the tip of each arrow, the tartan repeats itself. That's the sett size.

The advantage of pleating to the red in blue is that that stripe occurs twice every pleat, so you would have two pleats every sett, which gives you a more normal number of pleats. Alternate pleats will be different depths, but that's OK - no one will notice from the outside of the kilt.

**ChrisRossKin** · 20th April 10, 06:36 PM

Barbara and Hothir,
Well I think I should be able to get something right out of the info you've sent.
You did mentioned if I would like for you to ask Lochcarron for me on the sett size. This would be great Barbara so I can be perfectly sure and rest assured as I'm working.
You have been exceptionally helpful to me and I can not wait to see my kilt finished & I will be happy to send you some photos to share if you like.
Also, when my wife and I get to the area your in, we will have to come by and see your shop. She loves sewing and runs a fabric department in town.
If I struggle too much, I know she can help some, and it's good to know you and the book are there if it's gets to being too much.
I guess I will be sewing this by hand according to "The Art of Kiltmaking".
A different artform for me, however I will give it all I've got.
Keep in touch when available Barbara and thank you.

Hothir, thank you for sending the link for the straps.
Your photos of you look great. I used to live in King, North Carolina and at that time did now know how Scottish I was at 9 yrs. old, but thought I belonged in Cherokee with the natives. Still love them as my Ancestors and always will.
Take care
Chris

**Barb T** · 21st April 10, 04:37 AM

Hi Chris,

Yes, definitely do send pics, and I'll include them in the Gallery on my soon-to-be-improved web site! And I would love to meet you and your wife.

**ChrisRossKin** · 21st April 10, 12:10 PM

Hi Barbara
Well I have a few more minutes today to think about my kilt.
I measured the Tartan fabric according to the arrows and found it to be 16 inches wide.
I wonder if this is what Lochcarron will say?
Thanks for sharing with me about this, I am so new to it and it's harder
for me to understand what I should look for.
Of course I realize I will ultimately choose the way the pleats will look based on the sett and fabric, etc.. I know I want more stripes as in the military or regimental pleats or as many as possible so the folds will be smaller as you have mentioned it's going to be interesting to see where this happens for mine.
Thanks again and if you don't have time, how would I contact Lochcarron Mills?
Sorry if I appear too anxious, just that I've had the fabric a while and it took so long to receive so I am ready to show if off.(LOL)
Oh before I forget, would a gentleman where velvet in a jacket or would this not be appropriate with a kilt?
Thanks
Chris