A Military box pleat kilt

[Wompet]

I think this is what MacDougall is looking for:
pleating styles compared

BTW - did you mean to buy a box pleat from Matt or an MBP from me?

Well, if he isn't, I am.
Just kidding - but once I find that right tartan, you'll be getting a passel of PMs from me when I attempt mine.

[JohnH]

Reading this thread just shows me how far I have to go! I am admittedly tired after a long day of work and two drinks, but I realize how far out of my league I am in this whole kilt making business.....Yay, the challenge of learning new things ! (The F-H.C.A.G.)

I'm not convinced as your sewing skills are much more advanced than mine. I view these pleats as just another technique, the layout and sewing are where the skill is required. (I trained as an electronics engineer, so I suppose that I am looking at cold logic here.)

There does seem to be some confusion about military box pleats. The real problem is that they are mis-named (but we're stuck with it.). What they really are, are rolled knife pleats. Thank you for finding that link Wompet. I just spent a couple of hours looking for it! (The search engine does not like "box" because it has less than 4 characters.)

Normally, these kilts are pleated with one sett to the pleat, although the kilts worn by the Royal Scots and the Canadian Scottish (Hunting Stewart.) are pleated to alternate stripes. (Red, yellow, red, yellow etc.) I pleated my Hunting Rose kilt in this manner and had 8" left over from 8 yards.

That was because I used 1 1/2 setts per pleat. (27 pleats.) To do it that way for 31 pleats would require 9+ yards. I can only assume that the military Hunting Stewart kilts are pleated alternately with 1 1/2 and 1/2 a sett. This would average 1 sett per pleat, but the pleat depths would also alternate between 1 1/2" and 3". I have never seen one of these kilts up close so, does anyone know?

[Fraser and Kirkbright will weave a batch of 13oz PV in Hunting Stewart if there is enough demand. (Hint. Hint.)]

Progress update: I finally got the pleat folds to butt together and lay flat. I just put in the steeking and reinforcement strip. (The pleat measurements ended up spot on target!) The canvas is next.

[Wompet]

I had to use "military pleat diagram" to find it.
13 oz Hunting Stewart PV ... I'll have to get back to you about that (not here - no hijacking).

[Mr. MacDougall]

I'll drive down to Arizona with my whole kollection (threaten, threaten)

Well, we do have the Flagstaff games coming up, if you'd like to visit!

BTW - did you mean to buy a box pleat from Matt or an MBP from me?

Are you sure that's an "or" question?

I think this is what MacDougall is looking for:
pleating styles compared

Thank you... between the photos and the diagram, I believe I understand. What I'm not clear on is why anyone would pleat that way in the first place... I mean, I understand now that it's a traditional style, and it gives more 'swish,' and so on... but why would anyone look at a length of cloth, all those years ago, and think, "Ah! Let's do it this way!"?

[Pleater]

. What I'm not clear on is why anyone would pleat that way in the first place... I mean, I understand now that it's a traditional style, and it gives more 'swish,' and so on... but why would anyone look at a length of cloth, all those years ago, and think, "Ah! Let's do it this way!"?

I think it is the solution I needed to find, and missed, when I wanted to make a box pleated kilt with more fabric in it.

I progressed from the three layered box pleat, by extending the folds so it was five layers, but I never made the next step of extending the innermost fold over onto the next box, to make seven layers.

The evolution of the military style from a simple box pleated kilt rather than a knife pleat is I think the most likely - and it does seem to provide a 'missing link' for the development of the modern knife pleated kilt from the box pleated.

[Don Patrick]

I think this is what MacDougall is looking for:
pleating styles compared

Well, if he isn't, I am.
Just kidding - but once I find that right tartan, you'll be getting a passel of PMs from me when I attempt mine.

Glad I saw this post. I sure that when I go after my first tartan it will be a block pleat.

[JohnH]

Not list'ning!!! got my fingers in my ears DAAH DEE DEE DAAH - can't hear anything about pleating a MB to the sett. OH!!!!

BUGGER!!!!!

Not dooin it no no no way - not even thinking about it.

So how would you even start ....? I mean - no no no!!! (Pleater)

Sorry Pleater, w2f has suggested that I put up or shut up so, here goes.

<OT> I don't know if the Moderators would prefer this as a separate thread or not. Suggestions? </OT>

The sett on the (small sett, 11oz.) Douglas tartan is 89mm. Divide that by 7 to get 12.7mm. For me, the pleats (31) need to be 13.4mm at the hip. So, when this is done, the sett on the back will appear to be 7 x 13.4 = 94mm. Not enough of a difference to notice.



The number of bits needed to reproduce the sett (typically 6-9) will depend on several factors. The Douglas is a fairly simple tartan. If yours is more complicated, see The Book starting at page 59.

Again, begin the project by measuring and marking the cloth as for a knife
pleat kilt. The difference for the MBP will become apparent when you start to fold the cloth. For a knife pleat, the reveal will be on top at the right hand side of the pleat.



For the MBP, it is UNDERNEATH at the right hand side of the pleat. You have to fold over the right hand side of the pleat to "reveal" the bit that will end up on the visible side. (You can see in the next pic that the visible bit of the previous pleat ends up being repeated at the beginning of the folded bit of the next pleat. i.e. underneath on the right hand side)
Argh! My brain hurts...



Same cloth, same markings, just folded differently.



This pic shows that it is possible to make an MBP kilt to the sett.

This project should keep me out of mischief for quite a while. I'll post as I
complete milestones. To give you some idea here is a pic of the first sett (There will be 4 setts.) with the pleats folded and basted.

[Retro Red]

I'll drive down to Arizona with my whole kollection (threaten, threaten)

Hey, w2f, if you come to Arizona you can personally inspect the military box pleats of the Royal Regiment of Scotland kilt I'll be receiving, soon!
.

[way2fractious]

Hey, w2f, if you come to Arizona you can personally inspect the military box pleats of the Royal Regiment of Scotland kilt I'll be receiving, soon!
.

Hmmm... did someone say "Kilt Night" in Arizona?

[JohnH]

Thank you all for the compliments. I must admit to being surprised that it turned out so well for a second attempt.

To the sett? TO THE SETT!!! (Pleater)

Now you can carry through on your "threat" or "challenge" to Pleater (shame on you for toying so callously with her mind!) and fashion the other half into an MBP pleated to the sett. (w2f)

I must confess that my original comment had been somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but why not do it that way? It's just a knife pleat kilt with the outside end of the pleat folded back on itself. (Yeah, right. Plus a silly amount of extra basting.) So, I did a quick pinup test on the centre leftover strip just to see if it would work. It did, so I guess I've been hoist on my own petard! It will take longer than one done to the stripe as you have to work with 7 or 8 different bits of the sett instead of just the dominant stripe. I'll have to study the part of the book that deals with the matter.

I have never, ever, liked offset fringes, especially those little bristle-like 3/8-inch things on some commercial kilts. Give me a REAL fringed edge! So I use a five-inch piece, fringe both sides to a full 1/2-inch, fold one edge behind the other, and line it up behind the fringed fabric edge for a triple layer, but not offset or staggered. (w2f)

That would make an impressive fringe. If I may, I'll use it on my next one.