Formal Buckle Shoes

[creagdhubh]

I love the paintings...most of which I have seen many times before, yet always a treat to view again! For modern evening attire, I will state again, I prefer the open tongue style of the buckle brogues, which allow for more of the tartan or diced hose to actually show. This style looks profoundly smarter to my eye, versus the shoes with a tongue and the buckle placed higher up near the ankle - to me, that simply 'cuts off' a portion of one's evening hose, which you obviously want in the fullest possible view. I am not completely opposed to the latter, just partial to the so-called 'Mary Jane' buckle brogues, ghillies with red laces and buckles, or formal pumps with a grosgrain bow or buckles - all of which in patent or highly polished black leather.

Slainte,

[DWFII]

^ I've got a painting for you...later.

[DWFII]

Meanwhile, here's some more...






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[DWFII]

Charles II



George I:



George IV 1822 (next two):

[DWFII]

for Creagdhubh:

George IV 1822 by Sir David Wilkie



Victoria and Prince Albert polka circa 1840. Notice the near identity of their shoes. There is a small ornamental buckle on Albert's shoe and a small lace bow on Victoria's. Except for colour they are otherwise identical in shape and style:

[creagdhubh]

for Creagdhubh:

George IV 1822 by Sir David Wilkie



Victoria and Prince Albert polka circa 1840. Notice the near identity of their shoes. There is a small ornamental buckle on Albert's shoe and a small lace bow on Victoria's. Except for colour they are otherwise identical in shape and style:

What's your point here? I think the shoes look great and true to the time period. Today's buckle brogues are somewhat 'heavier duty' with thicker soles, heels, and smart rounded toe. I do know some who wear formal pumps with their Highland evening attire (Brooks Brothers sells them) and I tend to think that look quite smart as well - perhaps more 'feminine' than their buckle brogue counterparts, because they are not as 'heavy duty' in construction and appearance, but nonetheless, still quite smart with diced or tartan hose.

Slainte,

[DWFII]

What's your point here? I think the shoes look great and true to the time period. Today's buckle brogues are somewhat 'heavier duty' with thicker soles, heels, and smart rounded toe. I do know some who wear formal pumps with their Highland evening attire (Brooks Brothers sells them) and I tend to think that look quite smart as well - perhaps more 'feminine' than their buckle brogue counterparts, because they are not as 'heavy duty' in construction and appearance, but nonetheless, still quite smart with diced or tartan hose.

Slainte,

As I recall...as much to reinforce your own POV as anything else. But also to indicate the genesis of pumps and Mary Janes...and suggest an original context for them.

PS. You suggest that there is a row here...I'm not feeling it.

[creagdhubh]

As I recall...as much to reinforce your own POV as anything else. But also to indicate the genesis of pumps and Mary Janes...and suggest an original context for them.

PS. You suggest that there is a row here...I'm not feeling it.

Oh I see, cheers mate. No disrespect at all, suppose I was 'feeling' a different vibe from reading the above conversations - no worries!

Cordially,

[DWFII]

Oh I see, cheers mate. No disrespect at all, suppose I was 'feeling' a different vibe from reading the above conversations - no worries!

Cordially,

I would like to make one comment as an addendum to what I said above, and not directed at you or anyone else specifically.

I feel I have been responding, for the most part, to contrary remarks from others. And that's fine...that's what discussion is about. If we agreed with each other all the time we soon wouldn't have anything to talk about.

At the same time I don't think the "right to refute" can be reserved for a selected few. If someone takes issue with something I've posted, I believe I have...and should have...the right to respond.

I merely point this out to illustrate that discussion forums are by nature disputatious. The trick is to respect the other guy--disagree without being disagreeable.

[DWFII]

One other note about kilt shoes...

Al Saguto, the head shoemaker at Colonial Williamsburg, a protege' of Dame June Swann, the editor/translator of the very recent re-publication of M.De Garsault's 1767 Art du Cordonnier and arguably the foremost authority on shoes in the US, sent this to me referring to a piece he and Marc Carlson (?) wrote:

"Ghillies are a whole 'nother beast. They have the advantage that they are easy to make. There are some surviving shoes from the British Isles that vaguely resemble our ghillies, but they date to before AD 900 (Saguto, p.1, and Carlson). According to leading shoe scholars, ghillies as we know them are a modern invention based roughly on some surviving early medieval shoes, apparently a result of a combination of wishful thinking and a desire to come up with something for renaissance fairs, rendezvous, and such that is cheap, easy to make, and does not look obviously modern.

Even home made shoes in the 17th century were shaped to the foot – unlike ghillies, which are essentially a leather bag.

The term ghillie, itself, is a modern construct (Saguto, p.1). In 1894, Mackay listed about sixteen varieties of Celtic footwear from the Middle Ages to the early modern period; nothing resembling ghillies, nor even the term itself, appears (pp.141 ff.).

There is NO documentation for anything resembling ghillies anywhere approaching our period and place. Obviously, ghillies - or anything else that predates our period by seven or more centuries - are not the ideal to which we should aspire."